Re: Sindarin poems

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Lúthien
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Sindarin poems

Post by Lúthien » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:43 am

I finally worked up the courage (and trusted my pronunciation well enough) to record some poems that I wrote.

This one I made for my mother's birthday last month.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJjBuI3DHHA

Ir Ithil ammen Eruchín
menel-vîr síla díriel
si loth a galadh lasto dîn! *
A Naneth nothrim vell
le linnon im Athariel!

A sell dhôr galadhremmen vîn
Alae! Alfirin a meril edlothiel
ir aew linnol vi hant vell lîn
dartham sí, lastol a diriel
ne aduial luin derthiel

Anann onel veleth ammen
No brona in eraid ammell;
Eglerio Gwendolyn, lasto pheth lammen:
ú-thinnatha iaur i vell
an-glass anann gerin estel

===========

The Moon, having watched over us, Children of Eru
shines white like a jewel of heaven
now, flower and tree, listen silently!
To you, dear mother of our family
I sing this, your daughter from afar

Ah! Daughter of our tree-woven land
Behold! Alfirin and roses in bloom
the birds sing in your beautiful garden
where we linger, listening and gazing
in the blue of the twilight, lingering

For long did you give us your love
May the sweet days endure for long;
Praise to you Gwendolyn**, listen to my words:
what is old but strong does not wither
and I trust for our joy to last.

* those first three lines are by Tolkien. I like the intro.
** My mother's name is Wendelina***, this is the closest that I could think of in Sindarin sounding equivalent.
*** which is very close to Wendelin. Hmm.
A! Suilannon le - elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Niennildi Oarnen » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:16 am

This time surrounding Winter Solstice is intimately tied with our ancestors across cultures. In discovering this alignment, it seemed only fitting that this lunar month is assigned to Namo. It's very fitting that not only Luthien's memorial poem for her mother is here at this time, but also sharing stories of memories of departed loved ones.

So, we created a "Tale Fire" board for sharing ancestor stories.

http://localhost/iv_phpbb/viewforum.php?f=5.0
Just call me Dineen.

Eäralda Halatiriva

Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Eäralda Halatiriva » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:34 am

Aiya Lúthien
  wonderful Verse-making!! thank you for sharing.
Almién
Eäralda

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Lúthien » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:21 pm

Here's the two first verses of The Song of Beren and Lúthien which I translated into Sindarin

----- original by Tolkien ----

The leaves were long, the grass was green,
The hemlock-umbels tall and fair,
And in the glade a light was seen
Of stars in shadow shimmering.
Tinuviel was dancing there
To music of a pipe unseen,
And light of stars was in her hair,
And in her raiment glimmering.

There Beren came from mountains cold.
And lost he wandered under leaves,
And where the Elven-river rolled
He walked alone and sorrowing.
He peered between the hemlock-leaves
And saw in wonder flowers of gold
Upon her mantle and her sleeves,
And her hair like shadow following.

----- sindarin by me ----

I nimwaloth i bain a pant
I laiss in end calen nadhras
Calad egennir nedh i lant
En geil mi dhúath thiliol
Tinúviel i lilthas ias
Na lind o simp dholen a brand
A vi finnil dîn glîn ennas
A vi chammad dîn miriol

Nu laiss Beren erui padas
Ab aegais ring dad túliel
Mas i elduin i sirias
Nûr a erui reniol
Min laiss en-gwaloth tíriel
Glinthant mellys ’lassui ennas
Na choll a rainc dîn derthiel
Sui dae finnil dîn aphadol

---- literally translated back -----

The white flowers, they were fair and full,
The leaves they were long, green the pasture,
A light was seen in the clearing
Of stars in shadow shimmering.
Tinuviel was dancing there
To noble (high, lofty) music of a hidden flute
And  in her hair a glint was there
as in her clothing, shining like a jewel

Under leaves Beren wandered alone
After having come down from cold mountain peaks,
Where the the Elven-river flowed
Sad and alone he wandered.
Having gazed between the leaves of the flowering
He happily glanced (at) flowers of gold there
Upon her mantle and her sleeves,
Like shadow her following hair.
A! Suilannon le - elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Eruannlass » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:10 pm

Nice work!  Your skill at Sindarin is phenomenal!  I look forward to seeing more!

                                                                                Eruannlass
I Aear cân ven na mar ~ 'The Sea calls us Home.'

For whatever we lose (like a you or a me)
it's always ourselves we find in the sea
~ e e cummings

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Sânziana » Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:34 pm

Congratulations Luthien!  This is truly remarcable! And the poem is so beautifull that it almost brakes my heart...

I hope I will one day have your skill in sindarin.

Keep it up!
A young Voivode he seems to be
With soft and golden hair;
A blue shroud binds in a knot on
His naked shoulder fair.

"-From my sphere hardly I come to
Follow thy call and thee,
The heaven is my father and
My mother is the sea."

"Evening Star" - M. Eminescu

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Lúthien » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:20 am

thanks ... but phenomenal is too much honour, really. I've been at it for only a year now :)
A! Suilannon le - elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Lúthien » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:38 pm

next verse in yella - as the changes :)

----- original by Tolkien ----

The leaves were long, the grass was green,
The hemlock-umbels tall and fair,
And in the glade a light was seen
Of stars in shadow shimmering.
Tinuviel was dancing there
To music of a pipe unseen,
And light of stars was in her hair,
And in her raiment glimmering.

There Beren came from mountains cold.
And lost he wandered under leaves,
And where the Elven-river rolled
He walked alone and sorrowing.
He peered between the hemlock-leaves
And saw in wonder flowers of gold
Upon her mantle and her sleeves,
And her hair like shadow following.

Enchantment healed his weary feet
That over hills were doomed to roam;
And forth he hastened, strong and fleet,
And grasped at moonbeams glistening.
Through woven woods in Elvenhome
She lightly fled on dancing feet,
And left him lonely still to roam
In the silent forest listening.


----- sindarin by me ----

I nimwaloth i bain a pant
I laiss in end calen nadhras
Calad egennir mi (i) lant
En geil mi dhúath thiliol
Tinúviel i lilthas ias
Na lind o simp dholen a brand
A vi finnil dîn glîn ennas
A vi chammad dîn míriol

Nu laiss Beren erui padas
Ab aegais ring dad túliel
Ennas i elduin sirias
Nûr a erui reniol
Min laiss en-gwaloth tíriel
Glinthant mellys ’lassui ennas
Na choll a rainc dîn derthiel
Sui dae finnil dîn aphadol

I lûth nestant i dail naegrol
Berthennin dhyl athreviad
Agamp geleg ha vell, bragol
Mabant ithildim thiliol
Trî 'aladhremmin eldorath *
(He?) dregas fair na dail lilthol
Awarthant Beren reniad
Erui vi daur dhínen lastol


---- literally translated back -----

The white flowers, they were fair and full,
The leaves they were long, green the pasture,
A light was seen in the clearing
Of stars in shadow shimmering.
Tinuviel was dancing there
To noble (high, lofty) music of a hidden flute
And  in her hair a glint was there
as in her clothing, shining like a jewel

Under leaves Beren wandered alone
After having come down from cold mountain peaks,
Where the the Elven-river flowed
Sad and alone he wandered.
Having gazed between the leaves of the flowering
He happily glanced (at) flowers of gold there
Upon her mantle and her sleeves,
Like shadow her following hair.

The spell, it healed the (his) hurting feet
doomed to wander over hills
He leaped swift strong, sudden
Seized (at) glistening moonlight.
Through tree-woven elven-home
She fled promptly with feet dancing
She forsook Beren to stray
Alone in the silent forest listening




* _eldorath_ does not exist in any Sindarin text. I have constructed it in analogy with the attested words _elleth_ elf-maid and _elvellon_ elf-friend; and _elduin_ elven-river which was constructed by Maewen on the german Sindarin forum Mellyn Lammath. 

it goes like _el-_ of elves _dôr_ land, dwelling-place, region where certain people live  _-ath_ the collective plural - in analogy with _ennorath_ central lands, Middle-Earth: there is a phrase in "A Elbereth Gilthoniel" which goes like _Hi 'aladhremmin ennorath!_ amidst the world of woven trees.

I could not help being very surprised when I coined this word and, afterwards, suddenly realising the similarity to "Eldorado"   :)
A! Suilannon le - elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Lúthien » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:23 pm

the 4th one is tough ...

Sui laiss dulus i thail ellint
Lastant ennas lhyss reviol
A vi imlaid thyrin i lind
Ennas eithelui tuiol
Si nimwaloth i tharn, thinnol
a thloss ath thloss vi i chelch thind
laiss e-mrethil vi daur dharthol
hain sui gwilwileth sí dannol

too tired to put in proper comments - just the "retranslated english" for now:

Like beech-leaves the (exceedingly) swift feet
He heard there flying
And in hidden valleys the tunes
there like a well springing up
now the white-flowering (lay) withered, fading
and whisper after whisper in the grey cold
the beechen leaves in the waiting wood
like butterflies here were falling.

original:

He heard there oft the flying sound
Of feet as light as linden-leaves,
Or music welling underground,
In hidden hollows quavering.
Now withered lay the hemlock-sheaves,
And one by one with sighing sound
Whispering fell the beachen leaves
In (the) wintry woodland wavering.
A! Suilannon le - elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Lúthien » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:26 pm

and the 5th one ... (reposting first (Sindarin only) verses to avoid having to switch pages)

I nimwaloth i bain a phant
I laiss in end calen nadhras
Calad egennir mi i lant
E geil mi dhúath thiliol
Tinúviel i lilthas ias
Na lind o simp dholen a brand
A vi finnil dîn glîn ennas
A vi chammad dîn míriol

Nu laiss Beren erui padas
Ab aegais ring dad túliel
Ennas i elduin sirias
Nûr a erui reniol
Min laiss en-gwaloth tíriel
Glinthant mellys ’lassui ennas
Na choll a rainc dîn derthiel
Sui dae finnil dîn aphadol

I lûth nestant i dail naegrol
Berthennin dhyl athreviad
Agamp geleg ha vell, bragol
Mabant ithildim thiliol
Trî 'aladhremmin eldorath
He dregas fair na dail lilthol
Awarthant Beren reniad
Erui vi daur dhínen lastol



He heard there oft the flying sound
Of feet as light as linden-leaves,
Or music welling underground,
In hidden hollows quavering.
Now withered lay the hemlock-sheaves,
And one by one with sighing sound
Whispering fell the beachen leaves
In (the) wintry woodland wavering.

Sui laiss dulus i thail ellint
Lastant ennas lhyss reviol
A vi imlaid thyrin i lind
Ennas eithelui tuiol
Si nimwaloth i tharn, thinnol
a thloss ath thloss vi i chelch thind
laiss e-mrethil vi daur dharthol
hain sui gwilwileth sí dannol


Like poplar-leaves the (exceedingly) swift feet
He heard there flying
And in hidden valleys the tunes
there like a well springing up
now the white-flowering (lay) withered, fading
and whisper after whisper in the grey cold
the beechen leaves in the waiting wood
like butterflies here were falling.



He sought her ever, wandering far
Where leaves of years were thickly strewn,
By light of moon and ray of star
In frosty heavens shivering.
Her mantle glinted in the moon,
As on a hill-top high and far
She danced, and at her feet was strewn
A mist of silver quivering.

Ún chir hen revias palan
Erin laiss caedennin ennas
Nu 'ilgalad a nui gúran
Vi menel edhring míriol
Nu ithildim coll dîn tinnas
Sui caw amon, haeron a brann
Na dail dîn peliol, lilthas
I chîth gelebren hwiniol


(He) did not find her, he wandered far
On the fallen leaves there
Below starlight and under the crescent moon
Sparkling in the freezing heaven
Her mantle glinted below moonlight
Like (the) top of a hill, far and high
Spreading at her feet, while she danced 
(was) A twirling silver mist


================

1st verse
I found some parts in the first verse where I forgot mutation:
bain a pant -> bain a phant (special case mutation)
En geil -> E geil (mixed mutation)

4th verse
I used poplar bc there is no word for Linden - cannot find it in any Quenya source, either. Poplar looks a bit like a linden I thought.
sui gwilwileth I could not find "wavering" or any similar word - Eryniel came up with this visual metaphor "like butterflies (fell the leaves)"

5th verse
Ún chir archaic mode (Pedin Edhellen 7.2.3)
gúran Noldorin "Crescent moon" .. I needed a word ending on -an here ...
míriol I searched for long for something resembling "shivering". gir- "shuddering" does not feel right to me .. I can't see stars "shuddering", no matter how cold it is ... So I fell back on "sparkling" which also describes, to a degree, what stars on a cold night do ...
peliol, lilthas cf.Pedin Edhellen 7.2.3: using participle to describe simultaneous action "Spreading ..., while she danced "
A! Suilannon le - elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:19 pm

Here is a Haiku which is said to contain the Sindarin word for 'shivering', but that may not be correct:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling/message/27338

///Dave

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Lúthien » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:23 am

Ah thanks!
_Gir-_ which is used here, however, rather means 'to shudder' ie. the very physical meaning.  I consider it both too strong and too literal in meaning to use in this context - to apply it to stars.
I really like any suggestions though! The poplar one was very good.
A! Suilannon le - elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:34 am

Gnomish, the distant ancestor* of Sindarin has: paptha- tremble, quiver.

That is from the gnomish lexicon, which I will now attach.

///Dave


* In terms of Tolkien's manuscript history.

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Lúthien » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:53 am

heyyyy that is cool!!! Thanks!
I've looked wide and far for something like "tremble" or "quiver" indeed, but this document I did not see. Where did you get that from?
A! Suilannon le - elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

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Re: Sindarin poems

Post by Niennildi Oarnen » Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:20 pm

This may throw a spanner in the works.  ::) But as I read JRRT's English version, I thought it was Beren shivering, not the stars. I realize the punctuation and pronoun usage don't make it out that way, but that's still the way I read it it. (I still wouldn't choose "shuddering", but if my interpretation influences you, it may change how you translate.)
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