How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

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Meneldur Olvarion
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:40 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:24 am
How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

I find it quite strange that Christian, Muslims and Jews can ignore the immoral ways that their God is shown to have in the Bible, Qur’an and Talmud.
I thought that while I'm active on the board again, I'd take a stab at a personal answer to the question you posed last fall. As it is a personal answer borne out of my own experiences, it may not be that meaningful to you, yet someone may find it of interest at some point.

The simple answer why such things don't bother me is that's I'm not a member of any of those religions, and I don't view myself as entirely human [link], so from my POV it is rather like studying any other species which may have disagreeable aspects (c.f. Yersinia pestis). A deeper answer, though, is that many of the purported "commands from God" in those ancient documents strike my pattern recognition talent as being entirely human justifications for behavior, and do not proceed from non-human entities at all. The ones that don't fit the human-generated pattern are demonstrably odd enough to have a non human origin. God's "I am that I am: thou shalt say "I am" has sent you unto Pharaoh." is one example. It just isn't something a human would naturally say. With the Gospel of Thomas, such sayings are much denser: in effect, Jesus talks like a Salvia-person. Examples: "Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you." and "Jesus said, "The person old in days won't hesitate to ask a little child seven days old about the place of life, and that person will live. For many of the first will be last, and will become a single one."

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

Now, this method is probably not generalizable, and thus of little practical utility to the general reader, yet that is my technique for what it's worth.

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Mildir
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

Post by Mildir » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:07 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:26 pm
Is that not what the slaves did? Yes.

They waited for the moral men of the free world to recognize their first duty as free men, that being to insure that all in the country share in that freedom.

That was the wish of the founding fathers.
There were slaves who killed their masters, even if they were simple butlers and those masters hadn't made them suffer in any way.
This is what I've always known.
Do you think it's wrong, or manipulated ?
I don't think it is.
About the founding fathers...
May I quote an article from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_ ... on_slavery) ?
One of the greatest contradictions of the Founding Fathers was their disunity with regard to slavery at a time that they were seeking liberty for themselves. This hypocrisy was as evident in the North as it was in the South for many wealthy Northerners owned domestic slaves. In her study of Thomas Jefferson, historian Annette Gordon-Reed emphasizes this irony, "Others of the founders held slaves, but no other founder drafted the charter for freedom, "[37] In addition to Jefferson, George Washington, John Jay and many other of the Founding Fathers practiced slavery but were also conflicted by the institution which many saw as immoral and politically divisive.[38]
Maybe it's just an impression, but I'm not sure they were what they looked like... :hmm:

Richard Dawkins: he thinks God is very improbable, he lives his life in the assumption that He is not there (his words), but he hasn't considered that he may be in fact a part of God.
Why did you want me to see one of his videos ?

We have different ways of thinking, I think they can hardly "meet".
But I thank you for having made me understand better your viewpoint. :)
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:06 pm

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:40 pm
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:24 am
How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

I find it quite strange that Christian, Muslims and Jews can ignore the immoral ways that their God is shown to have in the Bible, Qur’an and Talmud.
I thought that while I'm active on the board again, I'd take a stab at a personal answer to the question you posed last fall. As it is a personal answer borne out of my own experiences, it may not be that meaningful to you, yet someone may find it of interest at some point.

The simple answer why such things don't bother me is that's I'm not a member of any of those religions, and I don't view myself as entirely human [link], so from my POV it is rather like studying any other species which may have disagreeable aspects (c.f. Yersinia pestis). A deeper answer, though, is that many of the purported "commands from God" in those ancient documents strike my pattern recognition talent as being entirely human justifications for behavior, and do not proceed from non-human entities at all. The ones that don't fit the human-generated pattern are demonstrably odd enough to have a non human origin. God's "I am that I am: thou shalt say "I am" has sent you unto Pharaoh." is one example. It just isn't something a human would naturally say. With the Gospel of Thomas, such sayings are much denser: in effect, Jesus talks like a Salvia-person. Examples: "Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you." and "Jesus said, "The person old in days won't hesitate to ask a little child seven days old about the place of life, and that person will live. For many of the first will be last, and will become a single one."

http://gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

Now, this method is probably not generalizable, and thus of little practical utility to the general reader, yet that is my technique for what it's worth.
Thanks for this.

I saw this --- "It just isn't something a human would naturally say. "

Not so if it is a Gnostic Christian. That is what we name our God, and yes, we mean ourselves.

Regards
DL

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Re: How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:10 pm

Mildir wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:07 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:26 pm
Is that not what the slaves did? Yes.

They waited for the moral men of the free world to recognize their first duty as free men, that being to insure that all in the country share in that freedom.

That was the wish of the founding fathers.
There were slaves who killed their masters, even if they were simple butlers and those masters hadn't made them suffer in any way.
This is what I've always known.
Do you think it's wrong, or manipulated ?
I don't think it is.
About the founding fathers...
May I quote an article from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_ ... on_slavery) ?
One of the greatest contradictions of the Founding Fathers was their disunity with regard to slavery at a time that they were seeking liberty for themselves. This hypocrisy was as evident in the North as it was in the South for many wealthy Northerners owned domestic slaves. In her study of Thomas Jefferson, historian Annette Gordon-Reed emphasizes this irony, "Others of the founders held slaves, but no other founder drafted the charter for freedom, "[37] In addition to Jefferson, George Washington, John Jay and many other of the Founding Fathers practiced slavery but were also conflicted by the institution which many saw as immoral and politically divisive.[38]
Maybe it's just an impression, but I'm not sure they were what they looked like... :hmm:

Richard Dawkins: he thinks God is very improbable, he lives his life in the assumption that He is not there (his words), but he hasn't considered that he may be in fact a part of God.
Why did you want me to see one of his videos ?

We have different ways of thinking, I think they can hardly "meet".
But I thank you for having made me understand better your viewpoint. :)
My pleasure.

What you put of slavery is all true. It shows the minority actions while I showed the majorities actions. I hopw you did not miss that.

Regards
DL

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