Note to all members
We are currently preparing to change the setup of this forum to focus more on imaginative & creative gnosticism, because we feel we should distance ourselves from the way thegodabovegod.com is increasingly aligning itself with conspiracy thinking.
We respect Miguel's choice of course, but that does not mean that we agree with it. We feel that conspiracy thinking is contrary to gnosis. It's simply not where we want to go.

If anyone is interested to continue a forum affiliated to thegodabovegod.com I am willing to help. Maybe you could start using the relevant part of this forum as a basis. Please contact me (Lúthien) if you are interested.

We've not yet fully decided on how to proceed; but I think that we should in any case cut the link with thegodabovegod.com (including the page there that links to the forum). We will also re-structure the forum, and put the old Ilsaluntë Valion board that focuses on Tolkienian gnosis up front again.
I will update this message as soon as there is something new to say.

The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post Reply
User avatar
Mildir
Able Seaman (Veteran poster)
Able Seaman (<i>Veteran poster</i>)
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:33 pm
Location: Italy

The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Mildir » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:39 am

Those of you who are interested in science have maybe heard talk of it once in their life: here in Italy we have a kind of "legend" about the true nature of the studies that Ettore Majorana (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ettore_Majorana) was carrying out.
Sources close to him have declared that he had discovered a new physics, the main application of which would have been a machine capable of creating infinitesimal antimatter particles.
This machine, built by his friend Rolando Pelizza, would have been used to heat, destroy and even transmute matter.
Eventually, Pelizza would have decided to destroy it, so that it could not be used with military purposes.

You can read about this story here: https://www.rinodistefano.com/en/articl ... -world.php

Icing on the cake: here is a YouTube video where you can see Pelizza using the machine and succeeding in transmuting a foam rubber block into gold (at minute 32:40).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnVlikWZb30

Might this be true or should we simply laugh about it? :D :D :D
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

User avatar
Meneldur Olvarion
First Mate
First Mate
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:23 am
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains, Georgia
Contact:

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:13 pm

When I first saw the Wiki, I was going to say, "I've never heard of this dude", but then I read a little further down and saw that he was the developer of the theory of autoionization while investigating caesium atomic spectra. I did remember that. I find it hard to remember people's names unless I get to know them personally. And it isn't just with 'foreign' names, either. If I met someone named "John Smith" once and then someone asked me his name a week or so later, I'd probably say, "I don't know..'Joe Blow' or some such", LOL.
Mildir wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:39 am
This machine, built by his friend Rolando Pelizza, would have been used to heat, destroy and even transmute matter.
Interesting. You can transmute matter by exposing it to a fast neutron cascade in a breeder reactor, say: although that isn't usually done as it isn't cost effective. Except in the production of Plutonium, wherein expense is discounted because they must make those nukes! :hmm:
Sources close to him have declared that he had discovered a new physics, the main application of which would have been a machine capable of creating infinitesimal antimatter particles.
Do you happen to know if they were positrons or anti-protons? (It may tell in the article, I'm just asking in advance in case it doesn't say.)

User avatar
Meneldur Olvarion
First Mate
First Mate
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:23 am
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains, Georgia
Contact:

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:28 pm

This part is quite interesting (from the Wiki, bolded section mine):
Solution of Majorana's equation yields particles that are their own anti-particle, now referred to as Majorana Fermions. In April 2012, some of what Majorana predicted may have been confirmed in experiments on hybrid semiconductor-superconductor wire devices.[7] These experiments may potentially lead to a better understanding of quantum mechanics and may help build a quantum computer. There has also been speculation that at least some part of the "missing mass" in the universe, which cannot be detected except by inference of its gravitational influences, may be composed of Majorana particles.

User avatar
Mildir
Able Seaman (Veteran poster)
Able Seaman (<i>Veteran poster</i>)
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:33 pm
Location: Italy

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Mildir » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:31 pm

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:13 pm
Interesting. You can transmute matter by exposing it to a fast neutron cascade in a breeder reactor,
But you can't produce every kind of matter, right?
I mean, I never heard of a method that allows to decide which element of the periodic table becomes which (which is what this machine would do, apparently, if what this Italian site says is true: https://www.majorana-pelizza.it/).
Do you happen to know if they were positrons or anti-protons? (It may tell in the article, I'm just asking in advance in case it doesn't say.)
Positrons.
According to the above mentioned Italian site three positrons would be emitted by the machine and "fired" towards the foam rubber block.
The site says that through some codes - which only M. and P. knew exactly - the machine could be programmed to produce via transmutation every element of the periodic table (we can certainly understand why Pelizza chose gold, if that ever happened indeed :D ).
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

User avatar
Meneldur Olvarion
First Mate
First Mate
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:23 am
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains, Georgia
Contact:

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:26 pm

No offense intended, but the article is mostly a list of unsourced assertions (unlike the Wiki). Compare it to this white-paper originally from nih.gov to see how scientific papers are usually written:

http://www.if-pan.krakow.pl/pjp/pdf/2011/6_1305.pdf

As for the video...sorry, but I couldn't finish it: waaay too much panning around. It reminded me of "The Blair Witch Project", supposedly a 'found-video' and I couldn't watch that one for very long even as a movie. I mean, these guys synthesizing the WWI explosive picric acid have a better video, even with their asinine soundtrack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7es7kMAZyFY

Sorry. I did like the Wiki article, though.

User avatar
Mildir
Able Seaman (Veteran poster)
Able Seaman (<i>Veteran poster</i>)
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:33 pm
Location: Italy

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Mildir » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:33 pm

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:26 pm

As for the video...sorry, but I couldn't finish it: waaay too much panning around.
Did you see what happened at minute 32:40?
Could you say the video is undoubtedly forged?
We don't have proof left, that's the issue, but to an Italian speaker such as I that video seemed so "sincere".
If it's forged it's a really big mockery... :D
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

User avatar
Meneldur Olvarion
First Mate
First Mate
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:23 am
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains, Georgia
Contact:

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:00 am

Mildir wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:33 pm
[...] Did you see what happened at minute 32:40?
Not until right now, as I said - but perhaps didn't make clear enough - shaky videos like that produce an effect on me similar to motion sickness, so I only watched maybe the first minute.
Could you say the video is undoubtedly forged?
It's undoubtedly odd, that's the main thing. But a larger problem is situational. By that I mean: are you asking me for my opinion on the device portrayed, or is this a larger effort on your part to get ol' Dave Woosley to drop the scales of 'Science' from his deluded eyes and reformulate his mind to...well, only you could finish that sentence because I certainly can't.

However, if it is something along those lines, then I'll just briefly try to show why your perception of me may be in error. First, I'm not a physicist, I'm more of a pure mathematician, and neither of those things in a professional capacity. I'm very logically oriented, but that is a basic personality trait that cannot be altered: even if I wanted to alter it (for some reason) I wouldn't be able to. Now, there is nothing wrong with the idea of novel or even lost technology, but when it starts to shade into "conspiracy theory" cognition, then I naturally start to bail out for reasons I've described and cited previously. But if you want a bare statement with no citations, the reason for that is that humans, in general, are blabbermouths, so that no 'conspiracy' can hold for very long. Why am I mentioning anything about conspiracies? Because I've seen many of those things over quite a few decades, and this has the signature of one.

Now, to the specifics of the video: at the time sequence you mention, there is a large EM flare (or what looks like one), and if as you said earlier, positrons were fired at that foam target, you'd have a huge amount of heat produced, probably more than enough to burn the entire mounting, but if moderated somehow, then certainly enough to melt the transmuted gold. That's one problem. Unless, they were some sort of special "Unicorn rays" (or whatever term you want to use) that just transformed things with no heat produced, but in that case you are very much entering non-falsifiable territory in which science cannot operate.

Worse, if this tech were available in the world at large, people wouldn't be making gold with it (or at least, that wouldn't be its primary use), they'd be making U235 with it (not Plutonium, as it melts in a gun nuke design) and terrorist nukes would be going off pretty much everywhere. How do I deduce this, you may ask? Well, as Riddick said, "because it was my plan."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4XxpC5li9A

OTOH, if this tech is 'lost' (I saw the date on the video was 1992) then we are in the same position as if it never existed in terms of practicality. For example, there used to be a species of giant fennel called 'Silphium' in the ancient Roman world. It's fully attested as existing and many accounts were written about it that survived. But, the ancients liked it so much that they over-harvested it to extinction. So for us, today, who might want to taste it, we are out of luck - because for us it is as if it had never existed.

And thus we come to the end of what we can say about this in anything other than an artistic sense. In that mode, I agree that this would be cool tech to use. So would the Feanorean lamps, though, and I would be more interested to see those first if it were possible for me to do so.

User avatar
Mildir
Able Seaman (Veteran poster)
Able Seaman (<i>Veteran poster</i>)
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:33 pm
Location: Italy

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Mildir » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:03 am

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:00 am
Mildir wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:33 pm
[...] Did you see what happened at minute 32:40?
Not until right now, as I said - but perhaps didn't make clear enough - shaky videos like that produce an effect on me similar to motion sickness
Ok, got it, I had assumed you were just bored by the fact it was "too much panning around"! :D
are you asking me for my opinion on the device portrayed, or is this a larger effort on your part to get ol' Dave Woosley to drop the scales of 'Science' from his deluded eyes and reformulate his mind to...
Nooo, really: I just thought you might have more means than I to determine whether a video in general is forged or not.
I'm not much of an expert on the matter, I often rely on other people's opinion, that's why I asked (and in case it weren't clear: my way of doing is planting seeds and letting the flowers born of them inspire whoever they happen to. I never force the outcome of planting. I never insist on someone's changing if it doesn't happen spontaneously).
Besides...
Why am I mentioning anything about conspiracies? Because I've seen many of those things over quite a few decades, and this has the signature of one.
... I knew if the content was false you'd probably be able to spot it as such through your intuition.
I'm not as uninterested in discovering what a shaman's intuition says as I might appear. :blush2:
Well, as Riddick said, "because it was my plan."
Parenthesis: you most often compare yourself to Riddick, but would I be mistaken if I said that your essence is also... Beorn's? S)
Ok, maybe my thought is based too much on PJ's portrait of him... but I think he got the character right: a "Middle-earth Riddick"...
And thus we come to the end of what we can say about this in anything other than an artistic sense.
I miss the company of people who can enter the oneiric memory of the One and see what really happened in the past!
I'm so frustrated by the fact I'll never be 100% sure that this guy is a charlatan... OR that he isn't! :headbang:
Guess I have to work on trusting my own intuition more...
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

User avatar
Meneldur Olvarion
First Mate
First Mate
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:23 am
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains, Georgia
Contact:

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:42 am

Mildir wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:03 am
Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:00 am
[...] are you asking me for my opinion on the device portrayed, or is this a larger effort on your part to get ol' Dave Woosley to drop the scales of 'Science' from his deluded eyes and reformulate his mind to...
Nooo, really: I just thought you might have more means than I to determine whether a video in general is forged or not.
I'm not much of an expert on the matter, I often rely on other people's opinion, that's why I asked (and in case it weren't clear: my way of doing is planting seeds and letting the flowers born of them inspire whoever they happen to. I never force the outcome of planting. I never insist on someone's changing if it doesn't happen spontaneously).
OK, thanks for the explanation. I see from this that I was reading something else into your manner of presentation. See, here in the U.S. argumentative people use an introduction very similar in style to yours to get someone engaged in discussion, and then a bit later they'll come popping out like a malign jack-in-the-box with a "Aha, I fooled you, you bastard! Made you look!"
Parenthesis: you most often compare yourself to Riddick, but would I be mistaken if I said that your essence is also... Beorn's? S)
That's almost 100% accurate. If you remember, JRRT uses the term "skin-changer" for him. That's very close in meaning to the Native American term skin-walker, or in the Malayan peninsula, Harimau Jadian which is what I am.
I miss the company of people who can enter the oneiric memory of the One and see what really happened in the past!
The Salvia-people can access any time at any probabilistic branch point (what the Moderns would call "The Multiverse").
I'm so frustrated by the fact I'll never be 100% sure that this guy is a charlatan... OR that he isn't! :headbang:
He's a charlatan in the sense that what is depicted could never happen. As I said above, I didn't know you were asking a real question and not presenting a rhetorical set-up. I can easily detect people's motives in the aggregate; one-on-one, that doesn't function.

User avatar
Mildir
Able Seaman (Veteran poster)
Able Seaman (<i>Veteran poster</i>)
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:33 pm
Location: Italy

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Mildir » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:26 pm

Thank you, Meneldur, I was interested in your opinion as I knew you were very unlikely to be fooled by false scientific evidence.
I might maybe ask the opinion of a couple other friends, but the more I try to figure out the truth, the clearer it becomes to me that it's all a fake: not only the Majorana-Pelizza machine, but also many things claimed by alleged researchers such as Piergiorgio Caria, who says this technology really existed and the Italian government is guilty of robbing us of the opportunity to exploit it...
Really sad, as guys such as him present themselves as "truth-spreaders" and - odd as it may seem - tell at times meaningful and very true things.

Sometimes truth and falsehood come from the same mouth and one needs to accept that a communicator mix them... S)
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

User avatar
Lúthien
Captain
Captain
Posts: 1641
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:52 am
Location: the Netherlands
Contact:

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Lúthien » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:27 pm

If mr. Majorana counted Enrico Fermi and Niels Bohr among his colleagues (or friends) he’s definitely an interesting fellow!

I never heard of him before, thanks. It’s a really odd story how he vanished, by the way.

As for that machine - I don’t know. One video does not prove anything. Anyone could make a video like that. As the adage goes: extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

I don’t even know if this “transmutation” somehow follows from Majorana’s work, in whatever way. But for what it’s worth, I would in any case think that any process that can transmutate a good-size lump of matter into another element should at least involve a lot of energy. And from what I’ve seen in that video something like that is not evident.

So I would dismiss the video, but mr Majorana was definitely a genius.
A! Elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

User avatar
Lúthien
Captain
Captain
Posts: 1641
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:52 am
Location: the Netherlands
Contact:

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Lúthien » Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:57 am

I must confess that at first sight I misread the title of this topic as “The Majorana Pizza Machine” 😁
A! Elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

User avatar
Mildir
Able Seaman (Veteran poster)
Able Seaman (<i>Veteran poster</i>)
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:33 pm
Location: Italy

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Mildir » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:59 am

Lúthien wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:27 pm
I would in any case think that any process that can transmutate a good-size lump of matter into another element should at least involve a lot of energy.
As far as we know, yes. :)
But, honestly, do you remember how big computers were?
It was impossible to make something very little do the maths they did, but now it's normal.
So my thought is: how can it not be the same for matter manipulation ?

I don't know anything about that, and the problem is I don't know where to start from in order to find valuable info.
So, for now, I'll ask you and Dave: do you know of any physicist who tried to prove it's possible to use very small amounts of energy (ergo: not nuclear fusion) to create or in general to manipulate matter?
Are fantasies and fakes seriously all we have?

I think it's a question that may somehow pertain this topic.
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

User avatar
Meneldur Olvarion
First Mate
First Mate
Posts: 1475
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:23 am
Location: Blue Ridge Mountains, Georgia
Contact:

Re: The Majorana-Pelizza machine: truth or umpteenth mockery?

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:24 am

Mildir wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:59 am
But, honestly, do you remember how big computers were?
It was impossible to make something very little do the maths they did, but now it's normal.
So my thought is: how can it not be the same for matter manipulation ?
Well, those are completely different things: one is the evolution of technology, the other is an aspect of the condition of being of this universe. In the former, you had to wire up individual transistors onto a circuit board to make a digital switch-bank - and before that, you had to use evacuated tubes which were even larger.

I used to tear apart old circuit board from the 50's when I was a kid to see how everything worked. The smallest tube I ever saw was about 5mm x 15mm, the smallest discrete transistor was about the size of a grain of rice (that one was from a 'current' (at the time) 1970's circuit board). Once you get to printing circuit boards - first with visible light, and now with actual electron beams - you can get many orders of magnitude smaller. You'll eventually run into a hard limit with that tech, though, in which quantum tunneling effects start to destructively interfere with the operation of your device[1]. The tech is reaching that point now. That's why there is all of the excitement over quantum computing and 'qubits'. Not that it removes those limits, but that you can get more computing power out of a discrete processor using that new tech, even though it is still very much in an experimental stage. Which kind of makes me laugh at the breathless accountings of "quantum" anything, but that is an aspect of human behavior, not the tech itself.

Now as to why things can't be transmuted 'cheaply' (i.e. at low energies), it mainly has to do with the strong and weak nuclear forces. It happens all the time inside stars, for example, but that is in the presence of huge amounts of energy. Here is a good short article on that:

http://ecuip.lib.uchicago.edu/multiwave ... cs/06.html

But, if you want to know the "how's" of this in greater detail, you'll have to study these matters yourself. I do have a passable handle on what's going on, but I'm not a physicist - worse, I'm not a very good teacher on anything (although my daughter says I do OK).

1: In general, you'll eventually run up against hard limits for any technology. Those limits are usually the 'rules' by which this universe is constructed, if you want think of it that way. You may be able to come up with a trick to go 'sideways' and not surpass one of those limits, but you can't just blast through one of them as if it didn't exist (usually, because that requires infinite (or unpracticably huge) energy to do so).

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest