My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

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Meneldur Olvarion
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Re: My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

Post by Meneldur Olvarion »

Many of your pictures are quite similar to the Blue Ridge mountains where I live (which is the southern terminus of the Appalachian mountain chain, that extends into northern Europe due to the sundering of the continents after the break-up of Pangaea).
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Re: My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

Post by Meneldur Olvarion »

Mildir wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:00 am
[...] It is also true, on the other hand, that when I asked Lada if she and her traveling companions came from another universe she said no.
That's because what the physicists insist on calling "the multiverse" is countably finite [link]. A mathematician would be more likely to term this a "probability manifold", which is not the same thing as a different universe, even though in some cases very different things may be happening in it, due to all of the various probability branch-points.
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Re: My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

Post by Mildir »

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 7:12 am
Mildir wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:00 am
[...] It is also true, on the other hand, that when I asked Lada if she and her traveling companions came from another universe she said no.
That's because what the physicists insist on calling "the multiverse" is countably finite [link].
I tried to read the article (though it took five minutes to understand the sentence "The probability of an event happening in a universe is the same as the proportion of times that a universe with that event appears in the kernel of possible universes.") and it really makes it clear how powerful mathematics can be.
I wish I could explain as effectively why I cannot fully agree with this conclusion:
In this page, we have come to some very controversial conclusions:

[...]

Not every possible universe exists;
The test I made and which I recently was crazy enough to propose to Lúthien (as a possible experience to share in the future) seems to show that the imagination of a real entity cannot be based on an unreal one, that our mind does not create (at this level of evolution) and is only able to reflect realities, like a mirror, that takes images from everywhere in the multiverse but never lies. :)
This would imply that at least every imaginable universe exists (and that somewhere, it is factual).

(Note: I can send you via PM the PMs I sent to Lúthien and her answers, if you wish. They may help understand. I can swear you we are dealing with something repeatable and that has already been repeated. But there are problems attached, as always in life...)
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)
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Re: My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

Post by Meneldur Olvarion »

Mildir wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:53 am
[...] The test I made and which I recently was crazy enough to propose to Lúthien (as a possible experience to share in the future) seems to show that the imagination of a real entity cannot be based on an unreal one
This seems to me to be more in the realm of philosophy than science, but I can easily imagine a 'non-possible' object in three dimensional space: a klein bottle. One could embed it in four dimensional space, however; which shows you that the boundary conditions (or axioms) of any mathematical model are very important - many people overlook that important fact.
our mind does not create (at this level of evolution) and is only able to reflect realities, like a mirror
That's certainly true, if you mean directly creating via thought ==> object(s)
that takes images from everywhere in the multiverse but never lies. :)
I don't see how this statement follows from the former - to me, there is no connection between the two, and the latter is unverifiable (technically, unfalsifiable), and thus outside the realm of what science is designed to cover.
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Re: My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

Post by Mildir »

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 12:24 pm
Mildir wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 11:53 am
[...] The test I made and which I recently was crazy enough to propose to Lúthien (as a possible experience to share in the future) seems to show that the imagination of a real entity cannot be based on an unreal one
This seems to me to be more in the realm of philosophy than science, but I can easily imagine a 'non-possible' object in three dimensional space:
In fact, my theory about parallel universes or, as I termed them, dimensions, does not imply that space is three-dimensional in all of them...
our mind does not create (at this level of evolution) and is only able to reflect realities, like a mirror
That's certainly true, if you mean directly creating via thought ==> object(s)
No, I simply meant: our imagination cannot create an image that does not correspond to something which is actual (and factual) elsewhere in the multiverse.
It can only reflect other actualities, actualities distant from ours, not directly communicating with ours, but as factual as ours.
that takes images from everywhere in the multiverse but never lies. :)
I don't see how this statement follows from the former - to me, there is no connection between the two,
Imagine your mind like a mirror, with the ability to "grasp" images from every corner of the multiverse.
Every image (when you imagine) corresponds to something real, close or far, in your dimension or in some other...
We cannot create something new in our head, something not already actual: we just glimpse pieces of the existing multiverse.
and the latter is unverifiable (technically, unfalsifiable), and thus outside the realm of what science is designed to cover.
I have been working to make it verifiable.
The difficult part is to share with distant people, for this and other reasons I quit many years ago.
But I might continue the work I began, with some luck... (see the final note of my previous message)
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)
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Re: My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

Post by Meneldur Olvarion »

Mildir wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 1:16 pm
[...] No, I simply meant: our imagination cannot create an image that does not correspond to something which is actual (and factual) elsewhere in the multiverse. It can only reflect other actualities, actualities distant from ours, not directly communicating with ours, but as factual as ours.

[...]

[...] Imagine your mind like a mirror, with the ability to "grasp" images from every corner of the multiverse.
Every image (when you imagine) corresponds to something real, close or far, in your dimension or in some other...
We cannot create something new in our head, something not already actual: we just glimpse pieces of the existing multiverse.
That looks like an axiom to me, and axioms by their nature are unfalsifiable, although you can create new systems from them if they are carefully chosen.
Note: I can send you via PM the PMs I sent to Lúthien and her answers, if you wish. They may help understand.
I'm an email-centric old-school kind of dude, so it would be easier to do it that way. Although I'm also very pragmatic and not that interested in cosmogonies, so it's up to you (i.e., if this were a "God-question" I'd be an apatheist).
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Re: My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

Post by Mildir »

Well... if Lúthien decides that the test is worth conducting, if - at any point in the future - she successfully conducts it, she may share the results with you.
Let's solve it this way.
You'd have a more scientific viewpoint and the attestation of someone trustworthy, so at that stage it may prove interesting to you.
A sea of luck will be needed, but I hope we reach it, one day, if the world doesn't end with viruses... :D
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)
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Re: My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

Post by Lomelindo »

Interesting stuff. Just read an article explaining that the MWI of quantum physics is incoherent and that casts doubt on the theory.

https://www.quantamagazine.org/why-the- ... -20181018/

Learning something new every day.😀
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What they looked like (approximately)

Post by Mildir »

Through the years I happened to find pencil portraits that - to a certain degree - reminded me of the four fellows who changed my life...

This is - more or less - what Arphin (also known as Emanuel) looked like:
Be Daer Edhel 3.jpg
This is instead definitely what Torion looked like:
Be Fuinion.jpg
Be Fuinion.jpg (11.06 KiB) Viewed 124 times
And finally, the lady of this drawing differs in many features from Nilwen (Lada Haldeson), but she has always inevitably reminded me of her:
Endeithad Nilwen.jpg
(I mean... what would you have done if one night people like this had suddenly shown up at the foot of your bed? $)
Sometimes, especially when depressed, I still think I might have been duped by them... but it wouldn't be entirely my fault, would it? :D)
(End of the embarrassing question)
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)
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Re: What they looked like (approximately)

Post by Meneldur Olvarion »

I like these pictures. As I am a visual thinker, they help me understand your story better. I also have to offer an apology for not attending to it better when you first posted it a few years back; but we occasionally get schizophreniform new members that give breathless accounts of "Orc armies massing in the fallen leaves!" and suchlike, and the content of some of your other posts at the time led me to a similar conclusion. However, after interacting with you more of the Facebook groups, I concluded you were an interesting dude, and I felt sorry for you when you asked for name suggestions for your new parrot, and that Elaran bilbber-blubberer came swinging in like some malign Mighty Mouse,



to tell you why this or that word was incorrect. Well, I think you know my opinion of linguists. Though perhaps not why I think as I do: I'm a visual thinker on the autism spectrum [link], so when I wish to communicate with others, I have to translate non-verbal, complex thoughts into verbal form - usually, losing some information in the translation process. So, form my POV, spoken language is an inferior mode of cognition. Well, I'll just let John Cavil from Battlestar Galactica explain it -



Mildir wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:34 am
[...] (I mean... what would you have done if one night people like this had suddenly shown up at the foot of your bed? $)
Sometimes, especially when depressed, I still think I might have been duped by them... but it wouldn't be entirely my fault, would it? :D)
(End of the embarrassing question)

Well, I re-read your account and saw you were 12 when this happened. Back then, I would likely have run out screaming, ¡Dios mío! ¡Hay extraños en mi habitación! (well, actually, Costa Rica and Spanish were a few years later, but close enough). Now, having become more Therian as I aged, I'd probably just attack - or at the very least growl, "Whut da f*ck you doin' in my room, dammit!!!" ;)
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Re: My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

Post by Mildir »

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:49 am
I like these pictures. As I am a visual thinker, they help me understand your story better.
I wish I had more, but I never found a portrait that gave an idea of what Ivrenwen looked like, and even these pictures are just "approximations"...
I also have to offer an apology for not attending to it better when you first posted it a few years back; but we occasionally get schizophreniform new members that give breathless accounts of "Orc armies massing in the fallen leaves!" and suchlike, and the content of some of your other posts at the time led me to a similar conclusion.
Then I too must offer an apology! :D
You should now that, by looking at everything you’d written at the time, I had concluded that you would never ever said something like this:
However, after interacting with you more of the Facebook groups, I concluded you were an interesting dude, and I felt sorry for you when you asked for name suggestions for your new parrot, and that Elaran bilbber-blubberer came swinging in like some malign Mighty Mouse,
It’s hardly my first mistake in judging someone, anyway, I’ve made many in the past (though it happens more often the other way around: I thought Kloczko was fine, then I discovered a couple details… $) ).
Thank you for saying this.
You should know sometimes people mistake me for someone who seeks attention and tells stories for the only sake of being “interesting”.
The truth is, if my name could disappear behind what I’m trying to report, I’d only be happy: coming here, risking to be taken for a mythomaniac, doing the same in the ELP group, trying again in other selected places, they are all attempts to tell other people “guys, this happened to me and if it happened it means that the reality as we know it is or might be the tip of an iceberg, mountains of stunning things are likely to be hidden beyond it”.
My ultimate goal is that, with this in mind, people start seeking for more and wishing to revolutionize a social/cultural/political reality that is - in my opinion - about to collapse (like something too rotten to survive for long).
(We named the parrot Lornoel, by the way, “Waves of lake”, because that is what his feathers remind of.)
So, form my POV, spoken language is an inferior mode of cognition.
I agree, it is a tool to learn and, like all necessary tools, it becomes a limitation at some point in evolution.
Exactly like the carnal body, to which it is connected.
Yet: it’s a beautiful toy, something to have fun with, in my view…
Well, I re-read your account
(Thank you)
and saw you were 12 when this happened. Back then, I would likely have run out screaming,
I would have too, probably.
But there was this thing: I felt this deep peace when it happened, as if nothing could go wrong.
Which is basically why I believed them when they explained to me that they are able to “calm someone’s mind” at need, to avoid outbursts of fear.
This is actually a dangerous ability to have, now that I come to think of it… I mean, imagine a predator having it…
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)
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Re: My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

Post by Meneldur Olvarion »

Mildir wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:31 am
[...] This is actually a dangerous ability to have, now that I come to think of it… I mean, imagine a predator having it…
Actually, Tigers do something similar - not so much calming, though, as paralyzing. They use low frequency sounds as a sort of sonic weapon:
"When a tiger roars-the sound will rattle and paralyze you," says von Muggenthaler. "Although untested, we suspect that this is caused by the low frequencies and loudness of the sound."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 152406.htm
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Re: My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

Post by Lúthien »

Mildir wrote:
Tue May 26, 2020 2:51 pm
Well... if Lúthien decides that the test is worth conducting, if - at any point in the future - she successfully conducts it, she may share the results with you.
Let's solve it this way.
I'm fine with that. I think we should first have that chat that we have been planning to have for some time, because I think we can then clear up a few misunderstandings that I think arise from using some words in a (slightly) different meaning.
A! Elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!
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Re: My first encounter with Lada Haldeson and what followed

Post by Lúthien »

Mildir wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:31 am
Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:49 am
I also have to offer an apology for not attending to it better when you first posted it a few years back; but we occasionally get schizophreniform new members that give breathless accounts of "Orc armies massing in the fallen leaves!" and suchlike, and the content of some of your other posts at the time led me to a similar conclusion.
to add my two cents: I also had some difficulties finding out what to make of everything you wrote (and I still do at times).
But you certainly also sound authentic and earnest and that certainly did not go for those people Meneldur also refers to ;)

And besides, I am all to well aware that I cannot even explain whatever I have experienced to most of my family and friends, without them probably thinking I've lost it.
That is the reason that I'm going on about the difference between factual, imaginal and "merely fanciful" so much, because (at least as I have come to understand it) especially the difference between imaginal and "merely fanciful" is lost to most moderns, and they therefore dismiss everything that is non-factual.
Reversely, people who have significant spiritual experiences almost automatically categorise that as factual, which is missing the point in the same way.

Anyway, I am glad that you persevered here.
A! Elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!
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