There is no easy way to tell it, but there's something you need to know...

This forum is meant as a place for Mildir to write about his experiences and insights
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Meneldur Olvarion
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Re: There is no easy way to tell it, but there's something you need to know...

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:10 am

Dear Mildir:

I have been quite busy lately, and so did not get to read much of your posts until now. I am going them now in reverse chronological order. First, I would say do not worry too much whether the non-ordinary experiences you describe are "inappropriate". You are now communicating with someone who is both a Salvia-shaman and a Tiger-therianthrope, each of which tend to discomfit the ordinary humans, but since there is (likely) thousands of years experience with regard to the first in the original Mazatec culture, and approximately 30,000 years of evidence of therianthropy in the form of ancient cave paintings, I think that gives me and people like me more than enough "street cred". ;)

Now, I won't deny that early in the history of this board, we had occasional troubles with the 'Otherkin' subculture [definition link], but they are rather easily detected as being a pop-cultural variant, which changes with the seasons (almost literally): that essential mercurial fluidity of their stories and self-definitions is a defining characteristic. What you say here does not appear to be in the same mode. Early in our group's history, we made a FAQ which contains some of these concepts. It's located here: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=977 If you can't see it, please ask Luthien to change your view permissions that document.

Now, I shall read your other posts...

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Re: There is no easy way to tell it, but there's something you need to know...

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:34 am

Mildir wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:43 pm
[...] The bulk of the tale, though, rotates around real facts happened approximately 30000 years ago.
Very interesting that you should say this: I did an archaeoastronomical investigation based upon the data-set of Varda's stars mentioned in both the Silmarillion and the LOTR using proper motion and precession the polar axis and came up with nearly that exact result. It's on the board, here: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=784

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Re: There is no easy way to tell it, but there's something you need to know...

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:51 am

Mildir wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:42 am
[...] She approached me and talked to me in a language that later I would know as Sindarin. She called it Mithren. She taught me to speak in Mithren (it is partly different from the Sindarin attested in J.R.R. Tolkien's scripts) {truncated}
Mildir wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:03 am
[...] I think that that is at least a noteworthy fact, wouldn't you say, Lúthien?
Do I have evidence for all this?
Yes, I do. :)
And I'm here to give it to you, but they pleaded with me to do things gradually, step by step.
I would issue one caveat here, but it may be better to offer an example of my own first: as I explained a few posts before this, I am a Salvia-shaman and have head many non-ordinary experiences, in some in which the Salvia-people have given me prophetic information. One of those 'prophesies' is that people on the autistic spectrum, as I am, are in the process of genetically diverging from standard homo sapiens in a process known as "incipient speciation". Could I prove this? Not with any certainty -- I could make a good case even setting aside the data from the Salvia-people and using the latest human genome research, but it would be extremely unlikely to convince anyone given most ordinary humans' intrinsic "group mind" and fear of the other.

What I've learned via my life experiences is that Truth is topologically invariant but geometrically labile (sorry for the mathematical metaphors, but they are necessary in this case for purposes of accuracy). Meaning that Truth may appear different to different observers, though still being Truth. The only reason I mention this is that back around 2005-2007, when the Otherkin subculture I mentioned was more active online, we got considerable criticism from them because "Tolkien had it all *WRONG*!!!", and that only the memories of their in-group had significance. They missed the point that both J.R.R.T's data and theirs would be considered "Unverified Personal Gnosis" in the context of the shamanic groups I used to be involved in, but that since our group was designed from the ground up to study and experience Tolkien's data-set, and had no primary interest on theirs, their criticism had no validity. We had a similar later run-in with the group of skeptical atheists, whom I responded to in much the same vein.

I suppose what I'm saying is that I have no wish to censor anything you might have to say of your personal gnosis, and will likely be quite interested in it, if you expect us all to think or react alike on this matter, that may be an unrealistic expectation. Please understand that this is only my 'orientation' statement to our board here, and is not intended as a veiled insult or anything of that nature. So please feel free to continue to post your experiences, as they sound very interesting.

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Re: There is no easy way to tell it, but there's something you need to know...

Post by Lúthien » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:01 am

Mildir wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:12 am
No, Lúthien, I didn't want to disturb him. :D
I just hoped he might pass by soon, but I think it's better to let fate decide... :)
Having known him for some time, I think that it’s more than likely he’s engrossed in something. I know because I’m like him in that respect :)

Edit: Q.E.D. :D
A! Elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

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Re: There is no easy way to tell it, but there's something you need to know...

Post by Lúthien » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:11 am

@Dave, very well spoken as usual!
Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:10 am
First, I would say do not worry too much whether the non-ordinary experiences you describe are "inappropriate".
I’ll just add here that the same goes for me, but as I mentioned earlier it’s good to keep in mind that your experiences might be difficult to communicate to other people if you present them in a “raw form”.

It took me considerable time to develop a feeling for how these things work, after living half a lifetime as an agnostic humanist. I know how hard it was for me to even accept my own experiences as “true”.

So it’s worthwhile to develop a little patience and think about how you can engage others. It can be done, no worries.
A! Elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

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Re: There is no easy way to tell it, but there's something you need to know...

Post by Mildir » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:33 am

Hi, Meneldur...

it may sound trivial but the only thing that I could think of after reading your posts was: thank you !!! :D
Hannon senui, I am really thankful that you've taken the time to read so many of my posts.
I hope to find the time to answer to your questions and to explain to Lúthien why sometimes I don't succeed in engaging people in a sufficiently appropriate way...

By the way: I'm partly autistic too and my recent life experiences have kind of helped me become even more so, if possible... :s
Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:51 am
I am a Salvia-shaman and have head many non-ordinary experiences, in some in which the Salvia-people have given me prophetic information.
I'd love to have more time in my schedule to learn more about shamanism and other similar kinds of spiritualism.
"Salvia" means "Sage" in Latin (also in Italian), does it mean that your way of being a shaman and this herbal plant are somehow connected ?
Do you consider yourself a healer ?
I know that the healer is kind of a way of being a shaman, one of many, I reckon... :hmm:
My favorite one, needless to say... :D

What I've learned via my life experiences is that Truth is topologically invariant but geometrically labile
Precisely. :D
Truth is expressed through reality, which originates from truth.
And ten or twenty different realities may have originated from a single (piece of the objective) truth. :)
(You are more intellectually prepared than I could ever be, I'm sorry if what I say looks that simple, but that is just the way I speak and write: in simple terms)
(Especially when writing in English ! :D )

Otherkin... S)
I think the name itself tells much about what lies behind this culture.
I'm not sure this is the right place to tell something that honest, but the otherkin I met I didn't like for one single reason: they disregarded love, they didn't think much about it (ok, I've been tooooo honest ! :D ).

I suppose what I'm saying is that I have no wish to censor anything you might have to say of your personal gnosis,
Thank you. :)
There are things which go beyond "simple" personal gnosis, in my case: I succeeded in moving a little object without touching it.
I could do it only once in my life, but I saw it.
It was as real and visible as a car that you see moving on a street.
And I saw Nilwen and Torion do even more incredible things: they made my parents sleep, they made them believe that I was home while I was away for days.
All through the mind.
Wait a second... they even opened the door of my house without having a key... it sounds sooooo much like Harry Potter, I know.
if you expect us all to think or react alike on this matter, that may be an unrealistic expectation.
That is indeed an unrealistic thing to hope for, on this we can agree ! :D
The fact that everyone of you will see my testimony differently is all that makes it worth giving.
It's the only factor that multiplies the potential positive effects that it may have if I give it.
And I've always felt that it might have some...
Please understand that this is [...] not intended as a veiled insult or anything of that nature.
The same goes for my statement about the Otherkin: it's just my personal feeling. :)
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

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Re: There is no easy way to tell it, but there's something you need to know...

Post by lysichitum » Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:33 pm

New member here and just adventuring in and wow! awesome! I hope I can get let in to see the other forums referenced above (FAQ about the "otherkin") as well. Though nothing out of the ordinary has happened to me, except a flash of insight or a synchronicity now and then, I tend to collect friends who have, and read about it, too, and the experiences and insights shared here are much in line with most of that. So much so, that as an observer, it makes sense to me that something real is going on and all those people who have such experiences are experiencing something real. And always has, at least as far back as written records and myth can take us.

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Re: There is no easy way to tell it, but there's something you need to know...

Post by Mildir » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:18 pm

Hi Lysichitum,

I'm happy you are open to consider the many things discussed in this topic, not everyone would be. :)
lysichitum wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:33 pm
Though nothing out of the ordinary has happened to me, except a flash of insight or a synchronicity now and then, I tend to collect friends who have
I'd be very interested in knowing what their experiences are exactly.
Could you tell us something about them ?
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

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Re: There is no easy way to tell it, but there's something you need to know...

Post by lysichitum » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:54 am

Most of the folks I'm referring to are online friends, but a few are in real life, some as prosaic and matter-of-fact as my dad and my wife! The experiences run the gamut....from UFO's to seeing strange creatures or entities (including at least one "thunderbird"...a Native American word for a huge eagle-like bird similar to the one described above), angels, aliens, fairies, ghosts, ancestors, nature spirits and such like. Some of these people are troubled or overwhelmed by what they see, and just in search of a listening ear, others have risen to accept it all...a few are practicing psychics or mediums. The consensus I take from it all is of a richly populated "otherworld", accessed all too easily by some (the challenge is in fact to shut it out, turn it off, and have a night's peace with one's own thoughts in fact), and for others by various means....ritual, trance, ecstatic experiences, sex, entheogens, and more. This world is at least as diverse and rich as our ordinary waking world, inhabited by all manner of life...some benevolent, some dangerous, many simply doing their own thing. I've never been there, but I've heard so many stories about it all from so many. It's a bit like talking to twenty or thirty people who have all been to Spain.....I feel like I know a bit about Spain from talking to them all....it is a consistent, sensible place with it's own system and history and ecology.

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Re: There is no easy way to tell it, but there's something you need to know...

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:27 am

Mildir wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:33 am
[...] Hi, Meneldur...
Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:51 am
I am a Salvia-shaman and have head many non-ordinary experiences, in some in which the Salvia-people have given me prophetic information.
I'd love to have more time in my schedule to learn more about shamanism and other similar kinds of spiritualism.
"Salvia" means "Sage" in Latin (also in Italian), does it mean that your way of being a shaman and this herbal plant are somehow connected ?
Do you consider yourself a healer ?
It literally is a sage, just a very unusual species which only grows natively in one small area on Earth. See
this link
to Daniel Siebert's page, the ethnobotanist who introduced it to the wider Western culture.

As for healing, yes it goes with the territory, as does attack and defense: because as soon as you acquire any degree of power, there are entities out there (other humanoid shamans or non-corporeal beings) that will try to challenge you or take you down. An advantage of being connected to a plant-based collective like this is that the power flows through you rather than from you, so you can access many more abilities than you could if you were doing it all yourself.

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