Discussion split off from ‘Gondolin music’

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Mildir » Sat May 12, 2018 12:46 pm

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 11:28 am
It is indeed "Nost-na-Lothion" in the foundation document
I didn't know, I just thought Nost-na-Lothian might be a form accidentally treated as canonical by Lúthien, that is why I took the liberty of flagging the typo.
Of course I don't expect anyone's posts to be typo-free, I can only imagine how many linguistic blunders mine contain... :D
Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 12:07 pm
Elaran wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:27 pm
[...] Merin i belil hired i-haw 'wanwen lîn.
Can anyone translate this for the non-Elvish speaker, here?
Yeah, sorry, I think it means: "I wish you to (be able to) find your lost creativity" (the literal meaning of the word is "juice", but I think he ascribed to it the same meaning as the word "juices" in sentences like "he's getting his juices flowing").
Of course, I may have misinterpreted the sentence, but I think it very likely that this is its meaning, as it makes some sense.
I presume he meant to say that there was a lack of creativity in my last posts, and I had to use my "ultimate weapon" as I didn't know what to say any more... :D

Elaran: it's like saying I made a big mistake in speaking a sentence in Latin... when I'm actually speaking in Italian.
Of course Italian resembles Latin very much, that doesn't mean I'm wrong.
Now: read "Latin" as "Tolkien's legendarium and linguistic notes", read "Italian" as "Mildir's memories" and the problem is solved (as long as you are so kind as to consider the idea that I'm being sincere when talking about memories. Believe me: fabricating a story would be easier for me, and yet it's not what I'm doing, otherwise I'd fabricate a much better one and I wouldn't be in this position). :)
I await your confirmation of the meaning of the sentence. :)
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Lúthien » Sat May 12, 2018 3:14 pm

Mildir wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 9:26 pm
And by the way: I think you wanted to write "Nost-na-Lothion". :)
Mildir wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 12:46 pm
I didn't know, I just thought Nost-na-Lothian might be a form accidentally treated as canonical by Lúthien, that is why I took the liberty of flagging the typo.
Of course I don't expect anyone's posts to be typo-free, I can only imagine how many linguistic blunders mine contain... :D

Oh gee, that was indeed just a typo ... I'm sorry if that has been the cause of arguing.
A! Elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Elaran » Sun May 13, 2018 6:11 am

No, Lúthien. Mildir simply pointed out the typo, and Dave explained why he sometimes makes the same mistake in writing. My reason for quoting Mildir's correction on Nost-na-Lothion was not at all concerned with the typo. Rather, my argument with it was that I assumed that he acknowledged it in his memories, like he did with Samírien. And my reason for addressing this was the incoherency of it all. Because indeed, (early) Samírien and, for example, (late) Míriel cannot coexist, as they employ the same root (from two separate periods in the External History of the Legendarium) but with altogether different meanings. Similarly, Nost-na-Lothion would rather mean "Family with Flower-son" in the Late Period. And yet such details are often overlooked by Tolkien fans, mostly due to a limited understanding of the External History.

Most of those who read the Book of Lost Tales find themselves confused when they fail to realise that these were drafts (or completed but later changed versions) of Tolkien's works. Early & late works can be enjoyed separately, but they are far from compatible. That is not to say that Gondolin did not have a flower-related event, but its name certainly would not be Nost-na-Lothion. And that one is still somewhat meaningful in the Late Period, but Tarnin Austa for example would be complete gibberish in Sindarin. Tolkien did update it to Ennyn-Awest (later in the Early Period), unbeknownst to many, but this is not Sindarin either.

My point with these is/was that, while it is still bordering on Grelvish, Mildir's dialect of Sindarin is somewhat close to Sindarin, and so his acknowledging words etc. such as the above to be a part of his dialect means that the words which he is using are incompatible with each other. In other words, "Mithren" is incoherent even to its own speakers. And his failure to address such issues, combined with the manner in which he chose to address some of them, resulted in my wanting to say Merin i belil hired i-haw 'wanwen lîn, or in Quenya, Merin i polil hirë vanwa sámalya, which may help with his understanding it...

Please accept my apologies for spoiling your post with these, Lúthien. It should have been reserved for a nice discussion on your experience and the beauty of the piece.
Law rad athren uin amar anin elenath.

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Mildir » Sun May 13, 2018 4:07 pm

All this has originated from my chance quotation of the term Samirien...
Lúthien: I should probably have opened a new topic immediately after Elaran's first post about the issues he thinks Mithren has, sorry for not doing it, I suppose I simply overlooked the matter...
I'm posting here again just because you might decide to move our posts elsewhere at any moment and in this case we risk to open two separate new discussions about the same topic... :hmm:
Elaran wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 6:11 am
My reason for quoting Mildir's correction on Nost-na-Lothion [...] was that I assumed that he acknowledged it in his memories
No! :D
Absolutely! I have never heard in Mithren something like "Nost-na-Lothion"!
Well, now that I think about it, nost is a Mithren word, but it menas "kind, courteous", not "birth" (nor "family", for that matter. "Family" is midor, in Mithren).
like he did with Samírien.
I'd like to point out that the Mithren word is Samirien, not Samírien.

In the Quenya which I remember being spoken in Valinor Samirien is a special word: you cannot inflect it and it is not really part of Quenya.
Since it is just a way to render a Valarin word through the Quenya morpho-phonetic style you can only use it in this form.
Now, in that Quenya you normally decline a word instead of putting a preposition before it (exactly like in Tolkien's Quenya), but there is also a set of prepositions that you can use when a word cannot be inflected, like in this case.
For example:
Carë = House/A house (declinable word) > Carëo = Of a house; Carenë/Caren = To a house.
Samirien = Samirien (indeclinable word) > On Samirien = Of Samirien; An Samirien = To Samirien.

Samirien is a word like Tolcien! :)
In the Quenya I know you can say "Tolcien" to indicate J.R.R. Tolkien, but you don't inflect the word, which is not really part of the language.
Understand? :D
And my reason for addressing this was the incoherency of it all. Because indeed, (early) Samírien and, for example, (late) Míriel cannot coexist, as they employ the same root [...] but with altogether different meanings.
Sorry, Elaran, but I think you are missing the point: just because a word of the Quenya I know has the same form as a word of Tolkien's Quenya (or Qenya), it doesn't mean it has the same meaning.
For example, the word mandë means "well" (adv.) in Tolkien's Qenya, "doom/fate" in Tolkien's Quenya and "hall" in the Quenya of my memories.
Three different meanings.
So, how can you say that the Quenya I know (and the same goes for Mithren) is incoherent if you don't know the meaning of all its words? :)
You can't deduce the meaning of a word of that Quenya just by looking at the meaning of a word of Tolkien's, not even if it has exactly the same form.
Mildir's dialect of Sindarin is somewhat close to Sindarin
There may be analogies (and there are many indeed), but they are not the same language.
his acknowledging words etc. such as the above to be a part of his dialect means that the words which he is using are incompatible with each other.
Can you tell me an example of two words of "Mildir's dialect of Sindarin" which are incompatible with each other? :)
How could you? :o
You don't know the grammar of Mithren, you don't know its vocabulary...
All you can do is just assume that they are.
And his failure to address such issues


S)

It's taking time for me to explain that these issues are nonexistent, it may be due to the fact that English is not my mother tongue...
Merin i belil hired i-haw 'wanwen lîn, or in Quenya, Merin i polil hirë vanwa sámalya, which may help with his understanding it...
Yes, now it's clear. :D
But you chose to ascribe to the word saw a meaning which is different from the one Tolkien gave to it (i.e. "juice").
That was rather unexpected and it misled me. :D
So, saw means "mind" and the whole sentence (both in NeoSindarin and Quenya) means "I wish you to/I hope you'll be able to find your lost mind". :D :D :D
But... Elaran... according to Tolkien (since you are using his Quenya) the verb polë means "have physical power and ability".
Maybe it would be better if you'd say "Merin i istal hirë vanwa sámalya" or "Nai hiruval vanwa sámalya". ;)
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Sun May 13, 2018 8:36 pm

Mildir wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 4:07 pm
[...] Sorry, Elaran, but I think you are missing the point: just because a word of the Quenya I know has the same form as a word of Tolkien's Quenya (or Qenya), it doesn't mean it has the same meaning.
For example, the word mandë means "well" (adv.) in Tolkien's Qenya, "doom/fate" in Tolkien's Quenya and "hall" in the Quenya of my memories.
Three different meanings.
So, how can you say that the Quenya I know (and the same goes for Mithren) is incoherent if you don't know the meaning of all its words? :)
You can't deduce the meaning of a word of that Quenya just by looking at the meaning of a word of Tolkien's, not even if it has exactly the same form.
Mildir's dialect of Sindarin is somewhat close to Sindarin
There may be analogies (and there are many indeed), but they are not the same language.
Let's inject a little set theory here (may peace be upon Georg Cantor ;) ). What you seem to be saying is your non-ordinary experiences have lead to your incorporation of Mithren, the Quenya you know (call it Quenyam), and the Valarin you know (Valarinm). And, that the intersection of your sets with Tolkien's Sindarin, Quenya (Quenya' (Quenya prime)) and Valarin (Valarin') produces a set which we may term "the Mildir-Tolkien Linguistic Commonality" (let's call it MTLC), formally:

{Mithren, Quenyam, Valarinm} ∩ {Sindarin, Quenya', Valarin'} = MTLC

Now it follows from this that the MTLC has a smaller number of elements than either set grouping alone - otherwise every element of {Mithren, Quenyam, Valarinm} would also be an element of {Sindarin, Quenya', Valarin'} and the differentiation between them would vanish. It also folllows that since {Mithren, Quenyam, Valarinm} contains elements not found in {Sindarin, Quenya', Valarin'}, they must come from somewhere else.

Now, the logical inference from these two facts is that the Eldar you speak of who are "soon to return" in an earlier post may not be the same Eldar JRRT wrote of. We cannot say "are not" with logical certainty, because discrete sentient beings themselves are of a greater existential order than the language they speak. It does make me wonder, however, if you have thought this aspect through.

For example, on one of my Salvia Journeys, I entered into a world in which the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor never happened. It was early 1943, and although the Nazi's were raising hell in Europe, here in the U.S. the government was still debating what to do about it (based on the newspaper accounts I saw anyway). Now, although this was a similar world, it was definitely not the one I came from, and I can only imagine the downstream effects had I entered into it closer to my own time.

Could not something similar be the case with the places, languages, and people you've met?

If not, why not?

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Mildir » Sun May 13, 2018 10:38 pm

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 8:36 pm
[...] the Eldar you speak of who are "soon to return" in an earlier post may not be the same Eldar JRRT wrote of.
Um... they said that Tolkien was one of them. :s
Nilwen, Torion and Arphin said it to me and they are three of the Eldar I speak of.
They said that he was a lightbringer, that he was temporarily reincarnated in a human body, like me, and that he had a task to carry out.
It had been assigned to him by the Council of Elders of Valinor.
If what they told is true - and I know it's no lie - why would he have written of different Eldar?
He may have, but I can't see any reason why he would have... :hmm:

Very well, I think I'll tell you all my friends told me about Tolkien...
Every ten centuries the Valar send five mediators in the world.
The mediators bring Manwë's will on earth (this earth, our earth).
They are great people with great skills: a very long time ago they were called "wizards" by those humans who believed everything they couldn't explain was "magic".
Today they tend (more than in the past) to mingle with normal people: some of the Valinorean mediators are called "mediums" by the common people.
Others are completely unknown to the majority of us.
Besides the mediators the Valar send here many "assistants" or "helpers", people who are meant to work with the mediators and to help them.
These are called caltacolindi (or calacholiellen, in Mithren), "Lightbringers".
J.R.R. Tolkien was one of them.
Erich Fromm was also one of them, do you know him?
Anyway: when a lightbringer is born in a human body they don't immediately remember who they are and where they come from.
It takes time, the mind needs time.
Memories surface gradually: some memories will do it sooner, some only afterwards and some will ever remain vague recollections (as long as the reincarnated Elda is human).
This may (I'm not sure it does) explain why Tolkien used to strike out many things he wrote (such as historical data and linguistic data).
This may also be the reason why he thought that Samírien meant something different from what it means in the Quenya of my memories (and in that Quenya it means basically nothing, exactly like the word Tolcien or Hyessu, that is the name of Jesus).
Maybe the memory of the meaning of that exact (strange) word was too vague.
I repeat: maybe.
I cannot know it.

Elaran: this theory is not meant to say that Tolkien was wrong.
I'm just trying to imagine why we ascribed two different meanings to a word, even if that word is part of the same language (which I think likely).
Also, keep in mind that Tolkien wasn't writing about the Quenya as I know it: that would be the modern Quenya. He wrote about the archaic Quenya.
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Mildir » Sun May 13, 2018 11:14 pm

Mildir wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:38 pm
I'm just trying to imagine why we ascribed two different meaning to a word, even if that word is part of the same language (which I think likely).
And I add: I cannot know for sure whether Tolkien had or not in mind the same languages that I call Mithren and modern Quenya.
I think it is somehow probable, but I don't know.
He may have just created imaginary languages based on memories of Mithren/modern Quenya or based on something completely different, for all I know...
This, combined with the fact that according to Nilwen he wrote about archaic Quenya/Sindarin, is what leads me to think that it's better to consider Tolkien's Quenya and the Quenya I know two different languages.
And the same goes for Mithren: it is better to consider it a different language.
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Mon May 14, 2018 2:38 am

Mildir wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 10:38 pm
Nilwen, Torion and Arphin said it to me and they are three of the Eldar I speak of.
They said that he was a lightbringer, that he was temporarily reincarnated in a human body, like me, and that he had a task to carry out.
It had been assigned to him by the Council of Elders of Valinor.
If what they told is true - and I know it's no lie - why would he have written of different Eldar?
He may have, but I can't see any reason why he would have... :hmm:
I think you rather have it back to front: it isn't JRRT's statements/textual output that I am attempting to ascertain the validity of with respect to the Legendarium as a control group, it is yours. I thought that was obvious from the content of my last post.

You see, I (and Luthien, who has been a member since early in this board's history) have seen many people claim to be reincarnated Eldar. Now, leaving aside the fact that I don't believe in reincarnation for anyone, even if I accept it as true provisionally, for the sake of fleshing out another's description/personal history, I don't see how the fact that one has been reincarnated should make their account "extra true". I mean, on my Salvia Journeys, I've seen places and things that are truly ineffable, and I don't have to die first to do it. And yet, everyone I've met who claims reincarnation asserts such "extra truth" either directly or implicitly. Then again, I'm not a 'wizard', I'm more of a 'sorcerer' [link to PDF]. So, since I can travel to far places (I suppose the New Agers would call this "Voyaging on the Astral Plane", though what this has to do with stars is beyond me) without dying first and using special techniques, doesn't this give me an evolutionary advantage?

Sorry if this seems harsh, but you have not told us why your personal data should be accepted. After all, before this board was expanded to general gnostic experiences, it was a Tolkien gnosis board in origin, and treated Tolkien's Legendarium as our primary data-set. That part is still true, we've just expanded the allowable post content. Now, if your posts are to be considered as general gnosis, then that is a different story; but if that's the case, then you have to state that explicitly. Otherwise, it leads to a while lot of confusion.
[...] This may (I'm not sure it does) explain why Tolkien used to strike out many things he wrote (such as historical data and linguistic data).
This part is comprehensible if one is operating under the paradigm (as I do) that JRRT was not 'inventing' so much as receiving [link]. On my Journeys I often return to the same place and acquire more data each time. Frequently, this alters the mental schema which I had at first - sometimes dramatically. I suspect something similar was happening in his case - if I didn't think so, I would not have been interested in his writings in the first place (leaving aside the whole Robert Pirsig-esque "Metaphysics of Quality" [link] aspect, which was actually a larger factor in the beginning (circa ages 8-12)).

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Mildir » Mon May 14, 2018 7:39 am

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:38 am
it isn't JRRT's statements/textual output that I am attempting to ascertain the validity of [...], it is yours.
I am perfectly aware of that. :)
And what I can tell you is just that I met three real people who gave me some information about Tolkien and even transmitted to me an image of him being in Valinor.
Later on, when I first read a book by Tolkien, the information I had been given proved consistent with (almost) all I read.
If you are asking me for scientific proof that I'm speaking of the same Eldar Tolkien wrote of, I do not have any.
How could I?
One day I may send to you via ósanwë the image(s) they showed me: this would require your permission, first of all, and I'd also need to be given the 'ok' by the other lightbringers.
But would that be scientific proof? :hmm:
Sadly, I don't think so...
What can I do to prove that the Eldar I met are the same kind of Eldar that Tolkien had in mind?
It seems impossible to do it...
And I never gave myself the problem, because it was so obvious for me and I didn't need to prove it to myself...
I'm afraid we'll have to wait for the end of the Dominion of Men to be able to prove such things.
Maybe when hundreds of Eldar will meet those who believe that the Eldar are fiction certain things will just be obvious for everyone.
So, since I can travel to far places [...] without dying first and using special techniques, doesn't this give me an evolutionary advantage?
Every Elda could do it.
They traveled to remote places in the same way you do (approximately): they visited like half the universe through their mind. They discovered what's outside our galaxy and they discovered that there are not only systems of galaxies, but even one system of systems of galaxies: Aleranya, that's what they called it.
The Eldar who come here do not die: they fall asleep and they reawaken in the body of a human.
They live in that body for a time.
When it's time to go back home the human body dies and they reawaken in their original body.
So, yes, there is in fact a death, but just when they return to be Eldar.
They need to become human because before the end of the Dominion of Men they cannot publicly show who they really are.
That is Manwë's will.
One of them was enough: a mediator, once, came here as an Elda and with the abilities of an Elda, including moving things without touching them and so on.
This started a religion, even if this wasn't exactly what the mediator wanted, and this religion inspired the masses to do also very very bad things.
After that the Valar decided: never again. No Elda would show themselves as such to a human until the end of the Dominion of Men.
This is what I've been told (and at the same time I remember very clearly).
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Mildir » Mon May 14, 2018 8:17 am

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:38 am
Sorry if this seems harsh, but you have not told us why your personal data should be accepted.
I never said you should accept them, I only asked (in my first post) to consider that they may be true and to be so kind, if you can, as to consider the idea that I'm not lying.
If what I saw and got to remember is a lie, I am a victim of that lie just as much as you are...
We could try to ascertain together whether the connection between my memories and the words of Tolkien is provable or not (scientifically).
It may be impossible, for now, but I am open to doing it. :)
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Mildir » Mon May 14, 2018 9:11 am

And I know that Lúthien might think:
Lúthien wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:12 am
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
If I am writing in this forum, if I have come to tell all these things about the Eldar, not to mention the lightbringers, it is because I've been allowed to.
By your kindness, yes, but by the community of the lightbringers in the first place.
If they hadn't wanted the information I'm giving to be given, I couldn't have written a single post.

That means... that one day I may be allowed to share some memories with someone here via ósanwë, if that someone will be completely open to having such an experience (which is hard to tell now).
That experience might not constitute evidence, but I'm sure it would be extraordinary (if it were ever to happen). :D
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Mon May 14, 2018 10:12 am

Mildir wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:17 am
[...] I never said you should accept them, I only asked (in my first post) to consider that they may be true and to be so kind, if you can, as to consider the idea that I'm not lying.
Lying is not at issue here - at least for myself. Clearly, you've had some profound experiences. The issue I have is that I have an ability to detect patterns, and some of what you write is identical in pattern to New Agey verbiage (such as the term "lightworker/lightbringer") which people I do tend to look down upon because I've never seen them exhibit any true power such as the Salvia-people and those connected to them have. That goes for "Neo-Pagans" also. I'm definitely biased towards aboriginal 'magic', such as is found among tribal people in Amazonia or non-urbanized Africa.

Now you may say that this last is more about me than about you. Fair enough. But another problem is that in your answers you keep revealing new information, many in just this thread. For example: "they said that Tolkien was one of them/Every ten centuries the Valar send five mediators in the world. The mediators bring Manwë's will on earth (this earth, our earth)/The Eldar who come here do not die: they fall asleep and they reawaken in the body of a human", etc., thus producing a constantly moving - and unverifiable given the Legendarium corpus - target. Now the main purpose of language is to transmit information first and foremost. So far, so good. But you also say, "I never said you should accept them, I only asked (in my first post) to consider that they may be true..." and herein lies the difficulty for me, as I have no way to differentiate, given my pattern detecting ability, your data from, for example, that of a person we met some years back who also claimed to be a reincarnated Elda and who posited that "the Avars are really Avari, and if I eat the 'Elf-grass' it shall make me immortal."

Do you see what I mean? It makes it difficult to proceed beyond an "this is an interesting tale" stage. And I think this is true for Luthien and Elaran also, though they can verify or deny this for themselves if they so desire.

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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Mildir » Mon May 14, 2018 10:59 am

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 10:12 am
The issue I have is that I have an ability to detect patterns, and some of what you write is identical in pattern to New Agey verbiage (such as the term "lightworker/lightbringer")
I see, I have this ability too and I fully agree with you: "lightbringer" seems to mean "working for light" or something, like a New Age slogan.
You have to know two things: caltacolindi ( = lightbringers) is just the name with which we lightbringers identify among ourselves.
It is not meant as a slogan: in fact, no ordinary human knows it.
Second: the name was devised by the Valar and it is not synonymous with "lightworkers".
Caltacolindi would mean "those who cast light on the truth and on the true history of humankind". :)
It's like a name for researchers.
We are spirit-scientists, Meneldur, not New Agers. :D

And I thank you for clarifying your issues here, as it helped me make you understand better this aspect. :)
But another problem is that in your answers you keep revealing new information, many in just this thread
The questions you asked often gave me the opportunity to touch upon new subjects, which I'd have liked to just introduce.
We may analyze each one of them at length, if anyone so wishes (not in this discussion, of course).
Do you see what I mean? It makes it difficult to proceed beyond an "this is an interesting tale" stage.
That is exactly why I asked you: what can we do?
What can I do to give evidence that there is a connection with Tolkien?
I'm thinking about it myself.
Is there anything I can provide you with?
I will do everything possible to provide you with elements which may give some.
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

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Meneldur Olvarion
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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Meneldur Olvarion » Mon May 14, 2018 11:12 am

Mildir wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 10:59 am
[...] That is exactly why I asked you: what can we do?
What can I do to give evidence that there is a connection with Tolkien?
I'm thinking about it myself.
Is there anything I can provide you with?
I will do everything possible to provide you with elements which may give some.
I have to go to a meeting with some visiting family members, so this message will be short, but I would ask how you got the 30,000ya figure for much of the Legendarium proper? I arrived at it myself via running stellar precession and proper motion data backward in time using various astronomical apps until I found a match with descriptions in the Legendarium.

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Mildir
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Re: Gondolin music

Post by Mildir » Mon May 14, 2018 2:34 pm

Meneldur Olvarion wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:12 am
I would ask how you got the 30,000ya figure for much of the Legendarium proper?
Ah... I am so sorry to disappoint you, but I didn't arrive at it in an as fascinating way as yours...
It was just one of the things Nilwen told me.
Later on, I remembered that, in Valinor, I had studied the Third Age of Arda in depth, as I wanted to know more about the moment when the elves left Amar.
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)

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