On the secrets of Ithildin

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On the secrets of Ithildin

Post by Mildir »

I’m trying to translate into English more of the material I have in the drawer (which is in Italian, mostly).
This is one of my favorite pieces: about one year ago I was having a casual conversation (a mind to mind one) with a member of the same people Lada Haldeson belongs to (see here and here for more info about Lada Haldeson and why it has been possible to communicate telepathically in my life. My ability to actively contact others kind of faded in time, but when others contact me conversations can occur).
I expressed curiosity about some aspects of the forgotten history mentioned by Lada (which, as you know, is tremendously similar to the story of Arda and of Middle-earth as reported by Tolkien), such as the functioning of the West-door of Moria and the true nature of the metal called Ithildin (see here for a definition according to the Legendarium).
So, this guy - his name might have been Halbareth - told me not only something unexpected, but also things which gave me a glimpse of the knowledge that those like him (which call themselves Eldar) have about other forms of life in the cosmos.
And believe me when I say it’s something completely different from “da alienz” as described on Facebook…
A lightning preamble: his words clearly implied that the star seen in the middle of the West-door of Moria was actually a gemstone. Those like him use gemstones to do many things, including storing up data (scientific data, memories and the like). All I know is if you touch one of these “archive-stones” with your mind you can access those data.
Here is an attempt to summarize what he told:
“You need to see the stone as the muscles and bones of a body, and Ithildin as its nervous system. This was the view of Nurrumentar, the Maia who discovered the intelligence of metal.
At its primordial or raw stage, metal is a mineral unaware of its own existence. If you impel it to follow a certain evolutionary path, though, it becomes a sentient entity. It’s about an induced and guided evolution, which happens spontaneously (in nature) only in a certain number of worlds of our universe. Creating Ithildin partly involves following this path. The gemstone has little to do with it, it is almost never part of the work, but rather what leads to the work: it is an instrument of mediation between the carnal mind and the mind of the metal, to translate our language into its, because, being the gemstone a mineral, it can act as a bridge between the two different planes of consciousness. A gemstone is usually employed to train Ithildin to perform actions (the gemstone will then cause them to be performed by the stone object in which Ithildin is embedded and without which its ability to understand would be reduced to a minimum. Exactly as in the case of a human mind, which would not be able to learn without a physical body, being it one of its earliest learning tools, only by passing through which it’s possible for the mind to become able to express itself autonomously. Even metal, in other worlds, expresses itself autonomously. Its language is not sound-based, consisting instead in a codified state variation: every smallest difference of state corresponds to a part of the code through which metal communicates. The life experience offered by this kind of communication has aims diametrically opposed to those from which human life arises, and is therefore assigned to a part of cosmos not reachable by us) and to sharpen its own reflexes. There may be cases in which the gemstone is maintained in contact with Ithildin even after its awakening, to offer guidance. The most advanced forms of Ithildin used to be able to recognize the murk of the thoughts of an orc, in whose presence they disguised themselves as common stone and even “sent to sleep” all their functions”
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)
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Re: On the secrets of Ithildin

Post by Lomelindo »

There was a recent article that stated that some scientists have successfully teleported quantum information into a diamond lattice.  This means that diamonds can contain insane amounts (terabytes) of data that is basically impossible to hack, until someone figures that out in the future.
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” - Haldir

“We’re not in decent places.” Gollum
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Re: On the secrets of Ithildin

Post by Lomelindo »

“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” - Haldir

“We’re not in decent places.” Gollum
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Re: On the secrets of Ithildin

Post by Lúthien »

This is interesting, Mildir. It’s also very condensed, as if it is summarised.
Can you say anything more about in what way metal can even be alive?
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Re: On the secrets of Ithildin

Post by Mildir »

Lomelindo wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:15 pm There was a recent article that stated that some scientists have successfully teleported quantum information into a diamond lattice.  This means that diamonds can contain insane amounts (terabytes) of data that is basically impossible to hack,
That's most interesting: I've been hearing about these "archive-stones" for so long but I never got to figure out how similar objects may work.
I'll read up on it soon.  :)
Lúthien wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 7:47 pm This is interesting, Mildir. It’s also very condensed, as if it is summarised.
Can you say anything more about in what way metal can even be alive?
I'm afraid I can't: this is almost all the above mentioned source told me, and even before I had never heard of sentient metals. I can only make assumptions on how you can "induce" the kind of evolution Halbareth spoke of.
By trying to talk to things with your mind, I suppose...  :D (joking, I suspect it's a bit trickier, if it is indeed possible in our realm).

Anyway, there would be a final piece to add to my first post: I was curious, you know, everyone would like to see an extraterrestrial life form... so I asked Halbareth if he had seen these "other worlds" where metal expresses itself autonomously and in that case if he could please show me.
He told he had got to know an explorer who had succeeded in reaching one of them with their mind (as apparently no Elda or Vala can reach them physically), the explorer had shared their memory with Halbareth and he in turn shared it with me.
So, how can I describe it?
It was a rather short "flash": I saw a wide expanse of darkness and in it what looked like little suns or little lava planets. Several long "arms" stuck out of each one of them.
The "arms" were incredible: so bright as to almost blind and dark at the same time, they looked partly made of lava, partly made of steel, partly made of glass containing pure light and partly made of solid coal.
And there were veins of lava in the steel, veins of steel in the glass containing the light, veins of glass in the coal: everything in a single arm.
I was crossed for a moment by the awareness that these "suns" were not actually stars, but sentient beings that could perceive me, that would have known I was there if I had been there.
For a fraction of a second I perceived their intelligence: they thought.
I can only say that the vision put some fear in my mind, not because of the possibility that these beings harmed me, but because of a particular feeling that can only be translated thus: I did not belong there. What I was seeing was not a part of the cosmos devised for me... so the fact that I was seeing it was in a way... wrong?
The vision ended very soon and that was also the end of the conversation between me and Halbareth.  :)

Halbareth's words and the vision he shared also brought to my mind another visual memory, which Lada had shared many years before: a memory of a place in Beleriand.
Maybe I'll report it here... or I could open a different topic because this is really similar to one of the journeys into the Imaginal you make...
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)
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Re: On the secrets of Ithildin

Post by Lúthien »

That’s a fascinating image you describe. It would be great if you could paint that!

About the notion of that part of the universe not devised for you: it does and doesn’t makes sense at the same time.

I can imagine something being so alien or complex that we cannot understand it in principle, but on the other hand I can’t understand why it should then necessarily also be “forbidden” or “wrong” to try. It a life-form is so fundamentally different there can also hardly be any conflict of interest that would warrant “keeping the sides separated”. That is, if that “wrongness” follows from a decision made by the creator responsible for both them and us.

Could it also be that the feeling of doing something wrong is a manifestation of fear of the unknown? It’s a pretty universal emotion, but oftentimes not warranted. 
After all, something as strange as you describe is also magnificent and wonderful. 

Re what you say about that vision of a place in Beleriand - that might indeed be more at place in the report section. 
While we’re on that subject; maybe we should move the whole of “Mildir’s Gnosis” to the Calacirya section?

Or maybe I should even redistribute whatever is in this Virtual Alexandria forum across the IV forum. The whole thing now looks quite different than half a year ago: then I had the idea that IV and this Virtual Alexandria section would be two similar parts, one dedicated to Tolkienian gnosis, the other to gnosis-in-general.

But this part has become very quiet now Miguel has removed the reference to the forum on his site. And I’m fine with that actually, because he’s been leaning more and more towards the conspiracy thinking crowd. 

Can you let me know what you would think about that? 
 
A! Elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!
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Re: On the secrets of Ithildin

Post by Meneldur Olvarion »

Mildir wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:38 pm [...] I can only make assumptions on how you can "induce" the kind of evolution Halbareth spoke of.
By trying to talk to things with your mind, I suppose...  :D (joking, I suspect it's a bit trickier, if it is indeed possible in our realm).

The only relevant thing I can think to add here is that I have occasionally had communication with stones before, but only with the assistance of the Salvia-people. They had to set up a sort of temporal 'buffer' to enable it, as the stone-people and Dave Woosley think at different rates (c.f. Lakota 'yuwipi' ceremony, which contains some similar (though not identical) elements [link, PDF]).

In general, the Salvia-people have a sort of technology that Modern humans would consider...extremely odd.
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Re: On the secrets of Ithildin

Post by Mildir »

Lúthien wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:19 am That’s a fascinating image you describe. It would be great if you could paint that!


I might try... if I do I'll post a pic here.  :)
Lúthien wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:19 am About the notion of that part of the universe not devised for you: it does and doesn’t makes sense at the same time.

I can imagine something being so alien or complex that we cannot understand it in principle, but on the other hand I can’t understand why it should then necessarily also be “forbidden” or “wrong” to try. It a life-form is so fundamentally different there can also hardly be any conflict of interest that would warrant “keeping the sides separated”.
Makes sense.
But, you know, if we see the universe as a (big) set of projects, there may be projects that Eru doesn't want to make contact with others. They may not be meant to do it, in the same way that a macrophage and a kebab seller are not meant to talk to each other...
This, of course, may not be forever.  :)
 
Lúthien wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:19 am While we’re on that subject; maybe we should move the whole of “Mildir’s Gnosis” to the Calacirya section?
It might be a good idea, along with Tom Polson's Gnosis. :-) 
Lúthien wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:19 am Or maybe I should even redistribute whatever is in this Virtual Alexandria forum across the IV forum. [...]

Can you let me know what you would think about that?
I know too little of the Forum's history to have a clear idea of what losing the "set name" of Virtual Alexandria might mean...
What I can say is that from my viewpoint is good to have at least a part of the board visible to everyone, it may work as a way to introduce people to the main topic.
So, for example, "Gnostic experiences" may remain visible (and whole as a section)...
Just random thoughts of mine...
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)
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Re: On the secrets of Ithildin

Post by Meneldur Olvarion »

Mildir wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:29 am [...] I know too little of the Forum's history to have a clear idea of what losing the "set name" of Virtual Alexandria might mean...

We made that when we re-purposed the original IV to a general gnosis forum. Unfortunately, that didn't work out too well, as (apparently) in Modern global culture, gnosis is inextricably linked with conspiracy 'theories' and "da alienz, yo!!!".

 
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Re: On the secrets of Ithildin

Post by Mildir »

Meneldur Olvarion wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:08 am
Mildir wrote: Sun Dec 27, 2020 10:38 pm [...] I can only make assumptions on how you can "induce" the kind of evolution Halbareth spoke of.
By trying to talk to things with your mind, I suppose...  :D (joking, I suspect it's a bit trickier, if it is indeed possible in our realm).

The only relevant thing I can think to add here is that I have occasionally had communication with stones before, 
I'd like to hear that tale  :)
A part of me hopes that stones don't share our same priorities, like having power over other stones...  $)
 
Our myths may be misguided, but they steer however shakily towards the true harbour, while materialistic 'progress' leads only to a yawning abyss and the Iron Crown of the power of evil. (J.R.R. Tolkien)
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Re: On the secrets of Ithildin

Post by Lúthien »

Mildir wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:29 am Makes sense.
But, you know, if we see the universe as a (big) set of projects, there may be projects that Eru doesn't want to make contact with others. They may not be meant to do it, in the same way that a macrophage and a kebab seller are not meant to talk to each other...
This, of course, may not be forever.  :)

Good point!
On the other hand, if that kebab-seller and the macrophage could overcome the sense of being freaked out by the idea the other one even existing - just think of what they could learn from one another! 

I would say that for me, I the more I learn about creation, and the stranger the things are that I learn; the more the awe and respect I have for creation increases.

But it could be that I overestimate my tolerance for strangeness. That, and I’m aware that I have never lost my childlike appetite for wonder. I feel somewhat like the kid in “Close Encounters of the third kind” who eagerly calls out “Toys!” while his mother is freaking out and barricading the house:



On the other hand, I’m not inclined to transgress in a moral sense, so if the feeling that it’s “not OK” would indeed feel “wrong” to me in a moral sense, I can understand. But I haven’t felt it myself so I can’t tell.

Mildir wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:29 am It might be a good idea, along with Tom Polson's Gnosis. :-) 
 
Certainly.

Mildir wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 2:29 am I know too little of the Forum's history to have a clear idea of what losing the "set name" of Virtual Alexandria might mean...
What I can say is that from my viewpoint is good to have at least a part of the board visible to everyone, it may work as a way to introduce people to the main topic.
So, for example, "Gnostic experiences" may remain visible (and whole as a section)...
Just random thoughts of mine...

Good points. I’ll think about how to best do that.
A! Elin velui, dîn dolog, aduial lúthad!
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