Painting of Queens of Numenor

[Meneldur Olvarion]

I rather like the following painting, as I think it captures their emotional characters rather well (insofar as we have narrative data).


[link to site]

Now, I know that many of you here are artists, and so may object to it on some technical ground(s). But for a dude like me whose artistic skill may rise to drawing a stick figure brandishing its fist with a bubble caption over its head saying, "I live in a van down by the river! (but am soon to move to a house in Georgia)", it suits my purposes. :-)

Their names, from left to right, are:

1) Princess Silmarien
2) Queen Tar-Ancalimë
3) Queen Tar-Telperiën
4) Queen Tar-Vanimeldë (her name means 'Beautiful Beloved')
5) Queen Tar-Míriel (or consort Ar-Zimraphel)

///Dave

[Meneldur Olvarion]

Sorry, couldn't resist re the 'River' metaphor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6R77eGx8xM

Lyrics:

I come from down in the valley
Where mister when you're young
They bring you up to do like your daddy done
Me and Mary we met in high school
When she was just seventeen
We'd ride out of that valley down to where the fields were green

We'd go down to the river
And into the river we'd dive
Oh down to the river we'd ride

Then I got Mary pregnant
And man that was all she wrote
And for my nineteenth birthday I got a union card and a wedding coat
We went down to the courthouse
And the judge put it all to rest
No wedding day smiles no walk down the aisle
No flowers no wedding dress

That night we went down to the river
And into the river we'd dive
Oh down to the river we did ride

I got a job working construction for the Johnstown Company
But lately there ain't been much work on account of the economy
Now all them things that seemed so important
Well mister they vanished right into the air
Now I just act like I don't remember
Mary acts like she don't care

But I remember us riding in my brother's car
Her body tan and wet down at the reservoir
At night on them banks I'd lie awake
And pull her close just to feel each breath she'd take
Now those memories come back to haunt me
They haunt me like a curse
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true
Or is it something worse
That sends me down to the river
Though I know the river is dry
That sends me down to the river tonight
Down to the river
My baby and I
Oh down to the river we ride...

I know that Luthien doesn't like Springsteen, but maybe this article will shed some light on those of us who do: [link]

[Lúthien]

I know that Luthien doesn't like Springsteen, but maybe this article will shed some light on those of us who do: [link]

Despite that, I can still see how that works though. I think that I consider his music 'not my cup of tea' because of the way that I listen to music. Which is that I don't get anywhere near the lyrics if the music doesn't also appeal to me. If I hear a Bruce Springsteen song on the radio, the image immediately presents itself of a man who makes a very physical kind of music, in a similar way as someone who is digging a hole or chopping wood. Which was amplified by seeing him pictured wearing a sweatband around his forehead (like a tennis player). The music has a physical, chunky, repetitive quality and when Springsteen'sbest-known chorus then exists of a repeated "Born ... in the USA ... born! ... in the USA ... BORN .... (etcetera)" (which I remember thinking of like "I wonder why he stresses that so much?") - I probably unconsciously decided that this is not for me.

Which is actually a pity because I'll readily believe that he has got something more to say; that he has written a couple of interesting songs at least.

It's not just with Bruce Springsteen .. I've had many discussions with people along the lines of
- What?? You don't like {insert artist name}?
- Well, no, not really ...
- But that song {insert song name} is really AMAZING!
- I bet you're right, but I just find the music so boring!
- Don't you listen to the lyrics then?
- Not if I don't like the music first.
- You're weird!
- I'm sorry!

All in all, it works better for me in this case to just READ the lyrics by way of a poem. So thanks for posting that!

But I must admit that I still don't see how you got from the Queens of Numenor to Springsteen's 'Down to the River' .. ? At least I don't see a lot of common ground between them.

[Meneldur Olvarion]

[...] But I must admit that I still don't see how you got from the Queens of Numenor to Springsteen's 'Down to the River' .. ? At least I don't see a lot of common ground between them.

Da proof:

[...] Now, I know that many of you here are artists, and so may object to it on some technical ground(s). But for a dude like me whose artistic skill may rise to drawing a stick figure brandishing its fist with a bubble caption over its head saying, "I live in a van down by the river! (but am soon to move to a house in Georgia)", it suits my purposes. :-)

It was simple "connect the vertices while ignoring any deeper meanings" drunken cognition. Q.E.D.

[Meneldur Olvarion]

[...] The music has a physical, chunky, repetitive quality and when Springsteen'sbest-known chorus then exists of a repeated "Born ... in the USA ... born! ... in the USA ... BORN .... (etcetera)" (which I remember thinking of like "I wonder why he stresses that so much?") - I probably unconsciously decided that this is not for me.

He's saying it so much because the song is actually criticizing the Empire, not praising it. It's about a Vietnam veteran who does his tours of duty and goes home after the conflict to discover that the America he came from doesn't exist anymore, and the variant he's in doesn't want him and wishes to pretend the whole thing never happened.

[Meneldur Olvarion]

Well, Bruce tells it better than I do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAqbN9HO68A

Lyrics:

The runway rushed up at him as he felt the wheels touch down
He stood out on the blacktop and took a taxi into town
He got out down on Main Street and went into a local bar
He bought a drink and found a seat in a corner off the dark
Well she called up her mama to make sure the kids were out of the house
She checked herself out in the dining room mirror
And undid an extra button on her blouse
He felt her lying next to him, the clock said 4:00 am
He was staring at the ceiling
He couldn't move his hands

CHORUS
Oh mama mama mama come quick
I've got the shakes and I'm gonna be sick
Throw your arms around me in the cold dark night
Hey now mama don't shut out the light
Don't you shut out the light
Don't you shut out the light
Don't you shut out the light
Don't you shut out the light

Well on his porch they stretched a banner that said "Johnny Welcome Home"
Bobby pulled his Ford out of the garage and they polished up the chrome
His mama said "Johnny oh Johnny, I'm so glad to have you back with me"
His pa said he was sure they'd give him his job back down at the factory

CHORUS

Well deep in a dark forest, a forest filled with rain
Beyond a stretch of Maryland pines there's a river without a name
In the cold black water Johnson Lineir stands
He stares across the lights of the city and dreams of where he's been

CHORUS

[wornout]

I do like the painting! As far as to the Queens of Numenor, it has been way too long since I've read any of Tolkien's books, though I truly did enjoy them and yes, I've seen all of the movies.

In regards to Bruce Springteen's music, I never got into it. My younger brother was a fan. AM radio and FM radio broadcasting back then and still does ruin many songs by overplaying them!

As far as what Luthein said:
"Despite that, I can still see how that works though. I think that I consider his music 'not my cup of tea' because of the way that I listen to music. Which is that I don't get anywhere near the lyrics if the music doesn't also appeal to me. If I hear a Bruce Springsteen song on the radio, the image immediately presents itself of a man who makes a very physical kind of music, in a similar way as someone who is digging a hole or chopping wood. Which was amplified by seeing him pictured wearing a sweatband around his forehead (like a tennis player). The music has a physical, chunky, repetitive quality and when Springsteen'sbest-known chorus then exists of a repeated "Born ... in the USA ... born! ... in the USA ... BORN .... (etcetera)" (which I remember thinking of like "I wonder why he stresses that so much?") - I probably unconsciously decided that this is not for me."

Also from Luthein's reply in "Do Republicans and pedophile priests share the same vile sexual morality.":
"I do, yes.
I find their lyrics interesting, but the music as such does not particularly thrill me!
That’s probably because my parents always listened to classical music; in popular music I usually ignore the lyrics and listen to the music underneath. It’s sometimes a pity, because I miss even interesting lyrics unless being pointed at them by someone else, notifying me."

I am very much THE SAME WAY, in that I hear the music first, then the lyrics, that's the way that I've always been. Now, I do try to listen to the lyrics even more, so to truly understand the intent of it all.

Please forgive me, for I haven't figured out how to use the quote function yet.

[Meneldur Olvarion]

I normally hear the lyrics and music as one "block", except for certain bands like Tool, in which the music itself is so interesting/powerful that it overrides the lyrics on the first few listens.

[...] Please forgive me, for I haven't figured out how to use the quote function yet.

It's actually easier to do it manually:

Code: Select all

[quote]Whatever you want to quote.[/quote]

You can also start with a quote by pressing the double quote control (from the left hand side, the fourth one starting with "B","I","U"), and then starting your quote with that code, like this:

Code: Select all

[quote=wornout post_id=8495 time=1582836510 user_id=383][...] Please forgive me, for I haven't figured out how to use the quote function yet.[/quote]

[wornout]

I never could get into metal rock bands. I started to get more interested in jazz music in my late twenties. I half to be in the right mood to handle anything intense anymore.

Thank you for trying in giving me a hand in how to use quotes in my posts. It will take me awhile for I'm not a geek, just got my first ever pc back in 2013 after my wife passed from ovarian cancer.

[Meneldur Olvarion]

[...] just got my first ever pc back in 2013 after my wife passed from ovarian cancer.

I'm sorry for your loss. That wasn't that long ago, at least not according to my way of marking time, in which anything less than 20 years is 'recent'.

[Lúthien]

I’m sorry to hear that as well. Time is a strange thing.
I lost my father almost 30 years ago and still not a day goes by without thinking about him.

Re. Metal - it’s not really my favourite either, but I’m always willing to listen to something new. Tool is not just “metal” IMO - it’s indeed quite deep.

[wornout]

Thank you both, Meneldur and Luthien for expressing your concerns for my lost.

Yes, in regards to time, it is “recent”. I also loss my father over 30 years ago and my mother about 7 years later. It would have been nearly 34 years of marriage to my precious wife. I know that she is in a better place.

As far as Tool, I’ll have to give them a chance when I’m up to it & hear how “deep” they are.

I’ll give you both a heads up now. I may not be posting anything for a while. I’m not feeling the greatest due to health issues.